quote:Original post by shaft I''d kind of like to see to realistic factions.
For example, how often in real life does "Town A" decide - Hey Lets go burn down "Town B".
Large scale factions exist as empires. Why do you attack another empire? Resources, religion, etc. And the civilion population in such wars is usually not the primary target of hostile actions.
I guess I''m basically saying if you are going to have player vs player, setup the game system to have reasonable reasons for player vs player. And if empires at war is part of the game system, then empire alliences should also be integral to the system as well.
You know that in the middle ages in europe, most of the wars and battles being done were not faught between 2 huge empires. They were little skirmishes between nobels and their armies. Between towns and castles. Fights over strategic areas of the time. Have you read micheal crightons book timeline? it does a good job of describing politics of war for the age they travelled to. The only wars that are remembered today however, are the huge ones that happened. Smaller battles that happen all the time are never recorded or even considered in history books. And are you so sure that civilian population are not the targets in most wars? What about the most recent world war? How about the crusades? Millions of people (not soldiers) murdered and targeted for destruction based solely on their religion. What about two villages on either side of a river? Lets pretend they''ve been feuding over a fire that happened 100 years ago for generations. One night the two village leaders come to a disagreement. Village A decides to go burn Village B down. Village A gains control over their mill and has access to all their crops now. Survivors of village B go live in hiding in the woods and caves, waiting for soemone to come help them or slaughter them.
I don''t know why you think that small situations that tie into larger situations is such an unrealistic approach.
"The human mind is limited only by the bounds which we impose upon ourselves." -iNfuSeD
For those who question destructable environment in a MMOG:
First of all, consider what 5010 said, especially regarding vegetation regrowing and structures being rebuilt. Things like rocks, too, could also reappear (when no one is around).
Secondly, you should consider different classes of destroyable items. Of course you can burn a little thatched hut, but the Ancient Temple of the Gods is probably something you don't want people to be able to destroy. There should be a full range from easily destroyable, to not at all. The ones in the middle would take a serious investment from the player in order to destroy it... much more than throwing a torch or casting some spell. And perhaps higher-up items couldn't be destroyed, but rather damaged to a certain degree.
And this class-system of damage doesn't only apply to buildings. Small saplings could be felled with a hearty whack from an axe, while a mighty redwood that has stood for untold thousands of years would have a bark so durable that neither blade nor fire could harm it. There'd be different types of rocks too. And any important statue or monument would naturally be made from the type that couldn't be destroyed.
*Edit addition - And perhaps some jerk has taken up residence in an area, and decided that he hates the local forest, so he spends all his time hacking and burning it, and making sure that nothing is allowed to regrow. You, as another player, can either cry about the fact that you can no longer enjoy this lovely forest. Or, you can do something about it. Kill the man, drive him from the area, or get people (or monsters or NPCs) to defend the forest. THIS IS GOOD STUFF. It's conflict with a purpose. It's people making a difference. You could establish a whole guild...a REAL guild ... who's sole job is to protect the forests and wildlife. I could see them being called upon by distraught villagers as "DarkSam_theUberLord" attempts to burn the local forests and farmlands.
[edited by - Veovis on January 2, 2004 10:19:10 AM]
The single most important thing I''d like to see in an MMORPG, would be somehow making things less "point, click, watch". Every MMO I''ve played, you just sit there and watch your character do stuff, after telling them what to do. I''d like to see the game systems become mini-games.
For example, if a game has a crafting feature. Intead of just selecting the ingredients, how about a puzzle type game, where you have to fit the pieces together. The only problem I see is that things then start to rely on the player''s skill rather than character''s skill. Maybe the character''s skill could make the game easier then, to provide a balance between the two. Like a skilled character will start with half the puzzle completed already, so the player has to rely less on their own skill.
For combat, maybe something simple like a combat meter, that you need to try and keep in the center for optimal effect. Different attacks would cause it to go either way. Might make it a little more dynamic than just using your most powerful attack all the time.
In other words, I''d like to see some incentive for the player to stay at the keyboard and interact. Instead of creating macros to do everything and then going to get a drink or something to eat.
quote:Original post by cgoat The only problem I see is that things then start to rely on the player's skill rather than character's skill
What's the problem with relying on the player's skill? bad players would get better with practice.
quote: For combat, maybe something simple like a combat meter, that you need to try and keep in the center for optimal effect. Different attacks would cause it to go either way. Might make it a little more dynamic than just using your most powerful attack all the time.
You know I think that's a pretty nice and creative idea... but I would try to add something I mean, maybe instead of a 1D measure, use a bar that is 2D and use a little dot to mark your current status.. some attacks move the dot to the left, others to the right, the less horizontally centered the more you miss... some attacks make it go up or down, the less vertically centered the weaker the attack..
Could be even more elaborate but I think that it is more than enough to revolutionate current mmorpgs... because the ones we have suck when it comes to combat
Read the thread: "Why are RPG combat systems so boring?". It has some great ideas. make it so you can move around and dodge and such. Also, don''t just have a general "exp" stat, instead, have exp for every skill there is, and you only get exp for it when you do that skill. Example: you won''t get better at cooking for killing a goblin
quote:Original post by cgoat The single most important thing I''d like to see in an MMORPG, would be somehow making things less "point, click, watch". Every MMO I''ve played, you just sit there and watch your character do stuff, after telling them what to do. I''d like to see the game systems become mini-games.
For example, if a game has a crafting feature. Intead of just selecting the ingredients, how about a puzzle type game, where you have to fit the pieces together. The only problem I see is that things then start to rely on the player''s skill rather than character''s skill. Maybe the character''s skill could make the game easier then, to provide a balance between the two. Like a skilled character will start with half the puzzle completed already, so the player has to rely less on their own skill.
For combat, maybe something simple like a combat meter, that you need to try and keep in the center for optimal effect. Different attacks would cause it to go either way. Might make it a little more dynamic than just using your most powerful attack all the time.
In other words, I''d like to see some incentive for the player to stay at the keyboard and interact. Instead of creating macros to do everything and then going to get a drink or something to eat.
monsters have sight, hearing and smell senses a monster that can hear really well can, depending on the noise you make, go investigate. add some smell ability - a wolf, for instance, would be able to track you (maybe depending on how long ago you took a bath!) even though you are hiding or silent.
a conversation-type engine where rumours can be spread. maybe even some sort of permutation-algo that twist the original words a bit? every time you talk to some person about something they can learn about it. maybe pass the information along. maybe it will work well if each NPC has interests. if two NPC''s talk they will converse about mutual interests and swap actual information?
The idea of tasks as mini-games has been addressed before. The compromise that came up was based on a puzzle system. The higher your character''s skill, the easier the puzzle. Imagine, if you will, one of those little computer-generated puzzles, where you give it an image file and it breaks it into irregularly shaped pieces and scatters them about the screen. For a level one puzzle-maker, it would be broken into dozens of tiny pieces, and the player would have to slog through it. For a level 8 puzzle-builder, it would be broken into about six huge pieces, and the solution would be immediately apparent.
Destructable terrain would be good, because you could ravage the countryside. I think that a good naturally-occurring quest would be something (dragon, chemera, locusts, griefer) beating down the crops of town X. Inhabitants of town X put out a bounty for stopping the scourge. Player Y comes along, takes the job, kills the dragon/chimera/locusts/griefer, and collects the booty. Then town X puts out a call for wizards to help restore life to their crops. Wizard Z comes along, invests a little MP in a level 4 spell of restoration, collects his buckage and goes on his merry way. Score.
why would the puzzle get easier as the player grew more skilled? An unskilled player would probably try crafting simple swords, just ones that held the shape and had a sharp edge. These should be the 6 large hunk puzzles. A master sword crafter should be one who has access to the larger more difficult puzzles to solve. As his level goes up he gets access to more complicated mini games to solve. As he solves harder and harder puzzles and mini games, his prizes for doing so grows. Difficulty should increase as the character gets more experienced and more developed otherwise the game turns into a babies game thats stupid easy.
Well the idea is that your character is better at creating swords, so he should be able to make the best sword pretty easily, wheras a noob would have a tough time of it.
But why not do both? As their skill increases, the puzzles they already have access to get easier, and new ones are opened up.
