Reading through the "Elves" thread, I started thinking that, indeed, computer games these days all either take place in some "Lord of the Rings" era or a futuristic era, or in the present day. Is that all we got - past, present, and future? Why do we have to stick to this timeline? So let''s throw the user in some completely different setting - something he has never seen before! Now, the essential gameplay might not be anything new, but this gives us opportunities for an interesting and novel storyline, with this new environment. There''s no limit to how far we could go with this. We could put the user in some completely different universe. We could have a storyline other than "save the world". So, one idea I had was a game where you take control of the immune system and fight a war against infection. This could be an RTS, in which case you would take your white blood cell army and stage daring raids among narrowing capillaries. Or, it could be some sort of shooter, where you fire antibodies at the invading virii. It could even be an adventure game, in which you quest to save the body from some affliction. Or ... how about a game which takes place inside a large space station? I haven''t seen a game like that before. This could be an adventure game. It could be similar to a sci-fi book I read once, in which the young hero strives to reach higher and higher levels of the station, fighting mutants along the way, eventually reaching the final goal. So, throw out some ideas you have.

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So, one idea I had was a game where you take control of the immune system and fight a war against infection. This could be an RTS, in which case you would take your white blood cell army and stage daring raids among narrowing capillaries. Or, it could be some sort of shooter, where you fire antibodies at the invading virii. It could even be an adventure game, in which you quest to save the body from some affliction.

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and where is the difference from the usual "save the world" besides replacing world with body?

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Or ... how about a game which takes place inside a large space station? I haven''t seen a game like that before. This could be an adventure game. It could be similar to a sci-fi book I read once, in which the young hero strives to reach higher and higher levels of the station, fighting mutants along the way, eventually reaching the final goal.

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system shock?
great game btw.

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Or ... how about a game which takes place inside a large space station? I haven''t seen a game like that before. This could be an adventure game. It could be similar to a sci-fi book I read once, in which the young hero strives to reach higher and higher levels of the station, fighting mutants along the way, eventually reaching the final goal.

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i recall a 3rd person action adventure on the ds9 (star trek), not sure of its name

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Reading through the "Elves" thread, I started thinking that, indeed, computer games these days all either take place in some "Lord of the Rings" era or a futuristic era, or in the present day. Is that all we got - past, present, and future? Why do we have to stick to this timeline?

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well actually this is actually everything you can deal with, besides having it somewhere else (a long time ago in a galaxy far away...)

not that i''m all that pessimistic but the problem is less to find new setups (replacing enemy tanks/soldiers with virii as you described) but developing new ways to present those, like futuristic shooters: quake series (mainly focuses on action), half life (still action, but more gameplay), deus ex (action if you like, but puzzles all over the game).

other than that there are games in another universe:
morrowind, star craft, every star wars game,... just to name a few.

what games can gain much more is in extended gameplay (especially rpg''s can get much of this but it still applys to other genres), new ways to present stuff (check out the excellent thread "[RPG Design Theory]Statistic-Controlled PC Perspective"), exciting stories (far away from the "save the [insert whatever here]" stereotype), ...

i hope i didn''t mix up too much and won''t be flamed too aggressive because i have not that much of experience in game design (thats why i''m reading the forum after all ), so this is just a random comment from my experiences with other games, including what i want (and at some point in time hopefully create) in new games.

I think that the various historical periods of man alone offer endless possibilities, most of which haven''t even been tapped, or have only had their surface scraped with a few (often weak) titles. I don''t think a story has to depend on its setting (at least in some sense) and that foreign landscapes can easily be found right here as well. Of course, that''s not to say that a well done extraterrestrial game isn''t worthwhile, just that perhaps more doors need to be opened for investigation. Cheers.

The immune system idea was done a long time ago (no pun intended). I forget the name of the game, probably inner space or something to that tune. It was on the Intellivision (yeah, I know... I'm old...) and was actually sort of cool. You would basically get a patient in various degrees of "damage" and you had to go repair things. For example, you would need to go into the lungs and remove the tar buildup, unclog plaque in the arteries, remove a tumor, etc... and avoid white blood cells which would mistake you for the "enemy". If you failed to repair problems the patient would go into cardiac arrest or hemorrhage. The idea could be done again and be interesting.

I'd say the Sims were a pretty original idea.

Ghost Master is original, and fun.

System shock and System shock 2 - both fantastic examples of a great game, and villain. I still laugh when I think about the elevator music in the elevator...

"The Longest Journey" - probably one of the best story lines in an adventure that I have played in a long time.

Fantasy is not limited to pointy eared people, swords and dragons.. Tron would be an example of something purely within the confines of a fictional computer world.

Take a Merlin point of view, instead of you character interacting with the world going FORWARD in time, how about the character going BACKWARD in time (sort of already redone in the longest journey with ancillary characters). You would obviously need to derive a purpose and a plot but as a twist it would be interesting that you know everyone's future but no one's past - might be the makings for an interesting murder mystery type game.

Xwing vs. Tie Fighter/Ghost Recon. Is it just me or is there still a large hole in Co-op multiplayer games where you play against a scenario? Personally jumping into a maze and shooting people with the infinite-ammo-clip is boring, although I understand that is not a popular viewpoint. However, I think that this is a very under explored area. MMPOGs are basically a MUD wrapped in different paper, and not the same thing. When you and your friends can team up to play through a story line with objectives I think it makes for compelling game play.

Project Eden had a great idea with multiplayer in that you HAD to use each character at certain times to solve puzzles and overcome obstacles. This paradigm would be nice to see in more games. I have seen at least 15 "LAN party" arcades pop up here in the Silicon Valley. Basically a kid with $20 walks into a prebuilt LAN and plays multiplayer games - Seems to me that Co-op teams against AI is a logical extension to this idea. However, the FPS games will dominate this area until someone can elegantly solve some of the intrinsic problems with this style of game.


Anyhow - these are just some random thoughts and ideas as well as observations (my client is late and I had some time to kill...). Over the years, these would be some of the more clever ideas or fun games that I have played. I have come up with some interesting ideas myself but until bills vanish I will have to wait to bring them to life.


#dth-0

Almost forgot - Gabriel Knight 3, probably the best thought out game I have seen ever. You can go and visit the "world" in Rennes le Chateau, France... it actually exists and is VERY well researched in the game.

[edited by - xiuhcoatl on November 20, 2003 7:05:21 PM]

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Original post by LousyPhreak
and where is the difference from the usual "save the world" besides replacing world with body?

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That''s the whole point of this thread. While the gameplay mechanics are the same, we''re throwing everything into a new situation. Anyway, that was just one possibility - I was just throwing out some ideas. You gotta admit, it would be pretty interesting.

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well actually this is actually everything you can deal with, besides having it somewhere else (a long time ago in a galaxy far away...)

not that i''m all that pessimistic but the problem is less to find new setups (replacing enemy tanks/soldiers with virii as you described) but developing new ways to present those, like futuristic shooters: quake series (mainly focuses on action), half life (still action, but more gameplay), deus ex (action if you like, but puzzles all over the game).

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I know a lot of people think the same way as you do. However, the way I think of it is that there really aren''t any new variation on the idea of a "game". It just seems to me that game designers aren''t as creative as, let''s say, sci-fi writers. We need something new.

xiuhcoatl: You do have some novel ideas, but let''s concentrate on new settings for games. And I think we should expand the definition of setting. It includes the physical environment, the people, the history, etc.

okay I''m going to list the first 30 settings that I can think of while watching to tv.

1)A crashing blimp
2)Cavemen trying to surive on primodial earth
3)On a chess board
4)At a carnivale
5)Space nomads traveling from planet to planet while competeting with other tribes.
6)An alien prison
7)aboard a pirate ship
8)caught in an infite temporal loop where effect precedees cause. The world resets every 10 minutes and you have to figure out what your going to do inorder to cause whats alread happened. In an attempt to escape messing up would cause paradox and if you cause one to severe the universe is destroyed.
9)A barren ice world, with mamoth animals stalking the wastelands
10)Out in vast emptiness of space that exists between galaxies.
11)A game set during the victorian ages where you have to out invent your oppoents.
12)Atop mount olympus, having to deal with inter politics of the olympean gods, and creating to heros and monster to compete in the games that gods play.
13)In a volcano
14)In an undersea lab in the year 2011
15)A world where sound has solid form and the world is made not up of objects but the sound the producde.
16)In side a giant robot that wreaking havoc.
17)A murder mystry set in a nuclear silo, after connect without side world has been lost and set during the cuban missle crisis.
18)How about a cotton plantation during the american civil war.
19)During the waring states period of japan.
20)In a bambo forest.
21)Far below a planets surface trapped in maze of cystalline tunnels.
22)On planet ruled by machines where you are either a rouge machine or the only organic entity.
23)During ancient egypt.
24)A paralle present where crude oil was never discovered and all the resulting inventions where never created.
25)A world of perpetual night.
26)An industrialized future with massive pipes and there is only a single small city on the entire planet.
27)Deep with in a frozen mountain range.
28)On a barren planet where the only resource are fossil bones of long extinct giant beasts.
29)On robot pirate island.
30)Alone in a boat in the middle of an ocean, with no idea where you, who you are, how you got there, where you going or what happened to lead upto you being on the boat.




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Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document

I got a couple:

How about the setting of Milton''s Paradise Lost? I''m not too familiar with the Bible, but I''m referring to the time period when Satan and some other angels are cast down to Hell and Adam and Eve are created (Genesis, maybe?). The elements here that interest me are Heaven (paradise in the clouds), Eden (garden/nature paradise), Hell (subterranean, pools of lava), and the angels and demons. I don''t want to rip off the actual named characters from the Bible (God, Satan, Adam, Eve, etc.). I think it *would* be cool to rip off the actual hierarchy of angels [http://www.paranormality.com/celestial_hierarchy.shtml]. I think Heaven, Eden, and Hell could be interesting and visually impressive environments.

My other idea is a dark cartoon world, a la Cool World. I think you could have a pretty cool GTA-style game set in the perpetually-nighttime city from that movie. I''m also thinking of the beginning of Dark City; the way the city is portrayed, before you find out the wacky, sci-fi explanation for everything.

Xiuhcoatl, Microsurgeon. Awesome. I lost the instruction book, though, so I never knew which weapon to use on which type of affliction, so I shot shot everything I saw full of whatever those little white dots were. That was a fine game. My patient usually died, but every once in a while I''d save someone.

Tron3k, you and bishop_pass have a similar affliction: You''re constantly annoyed by the lack of originality in video games. What''s worse, you''ve both come to the same conclusion regarding the perfect solution to that problem: Complain about it on these boards. Well, I guess it''s as good a thread starter as any, and nobody will eschew your right to post it, but when you start a thread about a pet peeve that not everyone shares, there''s always the same result.

People respond either with indifference to your original statement, a disagreement with you, or a suggestion that doesn''t really address the problem at hand. All three of these serve to piss you off, and you snap at the poster. After that, everyone thinks you''re a prick. Remember when Warsong kept posting those "If you think you''re a good designer, try THIS on for size!" threads? Now we all think he''s a big jerk. Bishop''s headed that same direction, and you''re just starting down that path.

Really, what is your objective here? Do you just want lists, like Technogoth''s? He did a fine job, but most of his ideas, novel though they may seem, have indeed been done before, in some form or another. Except that sound one, and I can''t imagine haw that would work out. It''s neat though. Good thinking, Technogoth.

There''s no shortage of novel settings and bizarre stories in video games, it''s just that those games tend to be less popular. Quite frankly, a game featuring a parallel universe filled with non-anthropomorphic slime molds trying to redecorate their burrow would be hard to sell.

As to goals, there are scores of different types of sim games, open-ended games, moral vaccuum games, and puzzle games. But for a non-sim game, if you''re going to have characters that a human can identify with and settings and conflicts he can understand, then you''re going to be destroying something, building something, saving something, killing something, stealing something or protecting something.

Would it be enough for you just to replace the princess with a microfilm or an artifact? Can we substitute eyeball lasers for guns and call it a new idea? Purple people and three-armed toads are a departure from the norm. Can you say that any or all of these things ar a contribution to game quality by virtue of their unusual nature? Is a game with flying cars better than a game with airplanes just because it''s absurd?

I think that both you and bishop_pass have confused preference and viabiity for stagnation and institutionalization. Just because we like where we''re at doesn''t make it a prison.

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Original post by TechnoGoth
8)caught in an infite temporal loop where effect precedees cause. The world resets every 10 minutes and you have to figure out what your going to do inorder to cause whats alread happened. In an attempt to escape messing up would cause paradox and if you cause one to severe the universe is destroyed.

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There was a puzzle somewhat like that in Escape from Monkey Island. (Guybrush meets himself from the future and holds a brief conversation. A minute later you return to talk to your past self, and if the conversation does not proceed as it proceeded when you were currently your past self, everything is sucked into a black hole.)

Iron Chef Carnage: I think you just read a whole lot into my posts that isn''t really true.

Anyway, why do you like where you are at now? As game designers, shouldn''t we try to keep doing better?

You seem to think that no good ideas can come out of a thread such as this one. However, I think you''re wrong. Eventually someone will post an idea that just clicks in your head - it''ll feel right. For example, on another thread someone had the idea to make a Matrix SimCity game where you manage the humans and try to keep them from discovering their world isn''t real. That was a great idea. Thinking of new settings is one way to think of a whole new idea.