I''m developing this engine for a free-form game. I would put this in game writing, but I''m not writing anything and the purpose of the engine is to introduce dilemmas via gameplay, not through a script. As titled, one of the things I''m exploring is good and evil. I think my problem basically comes down to this, I don''t know how to introduce good and evil without instituting some kind of system which, at least for the game, is the Truth. I guess I watch too much Angel and Buffy. On a side note, how many Christians think of Satan as the Devil, as Lucifer, as a rebel against God? How many think of him as an angel who is not against God, but does hate the f*** out of humans only? Do the angels have the knowledge of good and evil? Is perhaps good defined not by any set of actions, but at the bare minimum a capability of conscience/guilt? Is evil perhaps defined by a complete lack of it? I suppose now would be the time to insert comment about Angel and Buffy, but is a demon perhaps a creature with no such facility? --At this rate it''ll be easier to implement the engine to explore technology.

well, many of my friends call me Jesus (who is generally construed as being "good"), and I sometimes feel guilt... so, so far that last thing holds true

Sounds as though you have no/little knowledge of what you call "evil" other then what you have seen on t.v., rumors, etc. That holds true even when you bring specific classes into the picture, say christians. What do you mean by "good" and "evil" anyway. Do you mean the kind like in never winter nights, or actual "good" and "evil"? If you mean actual "good" and "evil" may I suggest you study on the topics so you know what you''re talking about without a seed planted mind?

>>Do the angels have the knowledge of good and evil?<<
Hmmm, I don''t think anyone can answer that since no one is an angel here. Although there is a quote that might help:
"Love is one of the most intense emotions felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone, you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional ailments. By learning to release your hatred toward those who deserve it, you clense yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved one. ... Without being able to experience one of these emotions, you cannot fully experience the other."
Maybe it applies to angles too?

>>Is perhaps good defined not by any set of actions, but at the bare minimum a capability of conscience/guilt? Is evil perhaps defined by a complete lack of it? I suppose now would be the time to insert comment about Angel and Buffy, but is a demon perhaps a creature with no such facility?<<
Like I said above, no/little knowledge. Capability of conscience/guilt, do you mean when it comes to people who deserve your hatred?

I''m not trying to be mean or anything and I am not trying to suggest anything religous here. I just don''t understand... ahh nevermind.

-UltimaX-

"You wished for a white christmas... Now go shovel your wishes!"

No true good and no true evil. Very thing is in %. Even Hitler wanted to do good and believed he did, but even Stalin did at the same time and he was with the good guys. The thing is that everyone wants to do good but end up doing bad, because the means do not justify the ends.

The winners of a war are mostly likely considered good because they have the power to demonize the other and justify themselves more. Some games do this. Some Japanese anime uses this like Gudam Wing, Rinoni Kenshin.

If you want truth then make the good guy to be 40% evil and 60% good. And the bad guy to be 60% evil and 40% good. If you want the devil involved make him 100% evil.

Sometimes people says "jesus" when I''m talkin to them too
I would think of any game engine where good and evil is defined as a poor engine. What you need is not a perfect frame defining good and evil - you need different point of views for the characters. For instance one character might not value lives great and another might react strongly to even the smallest fight. Other issues to be take into account might be temper, wisdom (in the sense of knowing how to respond to a situation and when not to respond at all) etc.
This way the "evilness" will be up to the user to judge and you also avoid unreal 100% good or evil persons...

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E-)mil
"I feel like... I feel like...
Like taking over the world!"
- Day of the Tentacle

Or you could install a deity and have the definitions of good and evil come from Him. If you have an in-game element that''s ontologically prior to the concepts of good and evil, then you give yourself the ability to concretely define them and categorize actions and things-in-the-world along the good/evil continuum. If a player/NPC/society has an ethical code that conflicts with the universal standard, then they are simply WRONG. So get yourself a supreme being to authorize your system. That''s what He''s for.

"On a side note, how many Christians think of Satan as the Devil, as Lucifer, as a rebel against God? How many think of him as an angel who is not against God, but does hate the f*** out of humans only?"

no Lucifer doesn''t hate humans he was in fact responsible for bringing knowledge to humanity. I suppose as far as the bible the devil is a manifestation of temptation, trying to convice people to question their faith in God. So I guess you could say he is also manifestaion of the pursuit of wisdom and knowledge.

"Do the angels have the knowledge of good and evil?"

Nope, they don''t, only god and humans have knowledge since humans ate the forbidden fruit they gained knowledge that way and the only creation of god to have that. They where also cast out of paradise for obtain knowledge, makes you think if God isn''t really good at all doesn''t it?




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Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document