Ever notice how in rpg everyone is always nice, happy and friendly. You can walk into someones home and go through their drawers pickup their favorite items and they couldn''t careless. Sure some games have any nearby npc attack you or send some guard over to attack you but thats about it. Also why is everone so honest? Where are dishonest merchants and peddlers. Think about it a mysterious peddler passing through town, claims to have the ancient vorpal sword a mystical blade that can decapiate even the strongest foe with a single swing, and it can be yours for the low low price of 1,000 dollars. Does that sound reliable? Would you by that sword from him in real life? Probably not, afterall he''s all most certinaly conning you. What I would like to see is a sytem of crimes and laws insitued into a game. In which there can be dishonest merchant and theives and the player has some recourse against and the npcs can charge the player with crimes aswell. Of course the game would require a set of knowledge stats in order for character to judge the authenticity of an item. They would be imporant for instance in determing if the statue is made of gold or merely gold plated, as well as telling how deadly the sword realy is. In fact the players knowledge could be greater then the merchant and so the old sword the merchant thinks is worthless the player might notice that is in fact a rare and powerful weapon. The laws would require somekind of enforecement and legal system that affects the player and acts as an actual deterent to crime or just as an incentive not to get caught. It would have to be something more elborate then guards comming and attacking the player. There could be imprisonment which would probably simply advance time and possibly age the player. But that would only have an impact if time and age play a factor in the game. The other idea I can think of is some kind of reputaion change perphas after commiting a crime, npc are lessen inclined to speak or do buisness with you or the guards my throw you out of the city or maybe to ensure security prevent you from leaving the city. Forcing the player to find alternate means of intercity travel and forcing them to locate black market stores. Well what do people think? Does anyone have ideas, thoughts or opions on how to improve this idea? ----------------------------------------------------- Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades Current Design project Chaos Factor Design Document

I think the point is how much the players will enjoy such a in-game law system. I think players prefer more on no laws and be outlaw in game. So if laws are applied to players, they may not be happy.

Laws are partly applied in some MMORPG games, such as Ultima Online, including the bounty system, fame/karma system, even a GameMaster run jail system. So all left is just whether it's worthwile to code the npc AI for an in-game law system.

Basically, I dont think players will like to have an in-game legal system.



[edited by - Hawkins8 on October 20, 2003 12:51:03 AM]

There was very little law that was enforcible against traveling salespeople back in the middle ages. That''s why they hung them if they could catch them (the crooks, that is).

A game is about the player having fun. Getting ripped is not fun. Trying to emulate court process and law enforcement is not fun.

Perhaps you can design a unique game where it IS fun? Then hop to it and do!

There is one game featuring in-game law, of a sort: A Tale In The Desert. Players can vote on laws, and developers implement them if possible. (At least that was how it worked a year ago) Check it out!

I can think of one game named morrowind that had somewhat of a law system. I can''t remember if people tried to rip you off but if you stole something and got caught, you''d get fined. Same with killing someone. You could even go to jail. But the punishment was ridiculus at times. I could kill but just get a fine?

A lot would have to go into the law. Like if someone attacked you first, would you have the right do defend yourself? or would you still get fined afterwards?

hmm, So far the responses have all been negative it seem people don''t like the idea of laws and rules..
I just don''t see what part of it makes a game less fun, Does having consquence to once actions limit the amount of fun you have in game. If your playing as a defender of truth and justice then you should accept to be punished for robbing someones home are their prized butter knife of Uber evil slaying, like wise if kill every third person you meet while walking down the street, there should be some respone to that. After all most people don''t like that sort of thing. If you playing aa an evil character or a criminal then doesn''t law add an extra elemant of risk into the game? The chance of getting caught and punished would force you to be more cunning and careful in your actions.

Who''s to say getting ripped off isn''t fun in a game? I remeber while playing shenmue 2 I was playing darts for money, and ended up getting hussled out of 100 dollars. I couldn''t belive it, it was something geniunly amusing and scolded myself for being such a sucker, but I never made that mistake again.

Legal procceeding could be interesting, they would give the player a chance to use there speaking skills to influnce the course of justice and get away free, or they could try bribe the judge.

As to fines... I don''t really like that idea it just doesn''t seem fun or interesting, also I recall it was all very artifical feeling in morrowind. Maybe something more severe such as if caught stealing they cut off your hands for a first offense.

-----------------------------------------------------
Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document

i think it could work, if you did it right. but, the crime shouldn''t even be reported if there are no witnesses, and if there are witnesses they must go to a guard/cop/courthouse/somewhere to report it (so you can kill them too, hide the bodies, and get away with it).

in morrowind, nothing annoyed me more than when i stole something or killed someone, and it said "your crime has been reported and you are expelled from such-and-such guild for stealing from another member", even thought the only person who knew besides me was the guy i was about to slaughter.

quote:

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Original post by trapdoor
I could kill but just get a fine?

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Remember that aristocracy historically kept that privilege as well.

ld

In all cases so far, an in-game legal system has been kind of stupid and extremely boring. That doesn''t mean that you can''t do it though. It just means that nobody has YET. I would love to see what it looks like in the end.

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I am the master of stories.....
If only I could just write them down...

i like it. anything that adds to the depth of the game is welcome, in my opinion. i've been working on a similar system for awhile now, but it's not fully formed. the executive is obviously the easiest part, but the judicial and legislative will need alot of work.

[edited by - syn_apse on October 21, 2003 9:40:02 PM]

final tactics on gba has a divine instance wich give rule for the battle and you get punish if you broke the rule

it add a lot of fun especially when the god gone insane and forbide for example all technic which begin with A



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