However, I would spend a few hours per week, and I would be willing to make this contest better if that is the consensus I received from those interested in participating.
Also, feature creep will be kept at a minimum. If a new version is to be created, it will have a defined set of improvements, and only those improvements will be included. Anything else will have to wait until after the "official" contest.
***EDIT: To clarify a point made in a reply below, these features have already been determined for the next version of the arena executable. While people may request many features, some extraneous at this point, I already have a list of improvements and fixes. So by saying that feature creep will be kept at a minimum, I mean that my list of improvements is already defined for the next version, and new requests during that version's development will not be implemented.
Anyway, as always, provide comments, suggestions, ideas, your name and credit card number, etc. and let me know as a collective whole what you want to do based on the advantages and disadvantages of each option.
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We have some options - what do you want to do?
After thinking about this contest and all the feedback that I have received, I have determined that we, collectively as a group here, have a few options.
Option 1: We start the contest with the arena executable (almost) as-is with a few defect fixes.
Advantages:
The contest starts within the next 2 weeks.
The core of the arena works well. It's just the presentation that needs work.
Disadvantages:
The arena executable may not work properly for everyone.
The defects everyone has been seeing with the download, for the most part, will remain until a later date.
Everyone accepts the interface as-is.
Option 2: I rewrite parts of the arena executable to allow for some of these other features that have been mentioned.
Advantages:
The arena executable will (hopefully) work well on everyone's machine.
All defects have been fixed due to a redesign.
Some of the features that have been requested are implemented, or at the minimum, easily added due to the redesign.
Disadvantages:
The contest will not start anytime soon. It could be another 2 months or more (keep in mind I only worked on this for about 3-5 hours per week for 2 months.. that trend would have to continue).
Potential for new defects due to redesign.
Option 3: We start a contest without prizes (for fun) using the current arena executable - a sort of trial run. During the lifetime of this contest, the arena executable and the interface is redesigned and reimplemented to fix defects and include improvements/features based on feedback.
Advantages:
We have a contest.
We get immediate feedback on: the arena executable, the arena interface, and the contest format.
Everyone gets a chance to give their input to make a better product (product being the contest).
The first official contest would be (in theory) better due to a low defect yield and a reworked/rehashed/reimplemented arena with improvements.
Everyone tests the current arena for the contest, as well as the new arena for feedback.
Disadvantages:
We do not have prizes.
The real contest does not start for another couple of months - at least until this first one is over and the new arena version is ready.
If anyone has any other advantages/disadvantages for each of these, I'd like to see them.
Basically, I realized that my attempt at quickly developing the arena executable might not result in the best and most fair contest possible. And given that I cannot stand having people use my software if it is buggy, I would rather improve it if that is what everyone would rather have. Another reason is that this is a completely new contest for GameDev.net, and while I do not expect to get it right this first time, I would like to make it as good as possible.
I leave this up to you, however. If Option 2 or 3 are decided, then just remember that I will not be working on this fulltime, and I will not be spending a couple hours every night trying to complete it. I have a life that I want to keep, a book that I need to get busy on, and everyday work. However, I would spend a few hours per week, and I would be willing to make this contest better if that is the consensus I received from those interested in participating.
Also, feature creep will be kept at a minimum. If a new version is to be created, it will have a defined set of improvements, and only those improvements will be included. Anything else will have to wait until after the "official" contest.
***EDIT: To clarify a point made in a reply below, these features have already been determined for the next version of the arena executable. While people may request many features, some extraneous at this point, I already have a list of improvements and fixes. So by saying that feature creep will be kept at a minimum, I mean that my list of improvements is already defined for the next version, and new requests during that version's development will not be implemented.
Anyway, as always, provide comments, suggestions, ideas, your name and credit card number, etc. and let me know as a collective whole what you want to do based on the advantages and disadvantages of each option.
*** This post has been edited. Please review it for any changes since your last visit. ***
However, I would spend a few hours per week, and I would be willing to make this contest better if that is the consensus I received from those interested in participating.
Also, feature creep will be kept at a minimum. If a new version is to be created, it will have a defined set of improvements, and only those improvements will be included. Anything else will have to wait until after the "official" contest.
***EDIT: To clarify a point made in a reply below, these features have already been determined for the next version of the arena executable. While people may request many features, some extraneous at this point, I already have a list of improvements and fixes. So by saying that feature creep will be kept at a minimum, I mean that my list of improvements is already defined for the next version, and new requests during that version's development will not be implemented.
Anyway, as always, provide comments, suggestions, ideas, your name and credit card number, etc. and let me know as a collective whole what you want to do based on the advantages and disadvantages of each option.
*** This post has been edited. Please review it for any changes since your last visit. *** 
My opinion is for #3 or a variant thereof. Start the for fun contest now -- it will maximize our amount of time we have to develop for the competitive contest. For those that feel like they would participate in the for fun contest and it would be unfair for both contests to not run on the same code, how about starting a new for fun contest once the competitive contest starts? And I think all of us certainly understand time constraints of real life. It seems to me this would take some of the stress off of you and give us something to play with in the meantime.
I vote for Option1. That would allow you to work on Option2 for a new contest next year.
Let''s be honnest: if you go for option2 now, people will never be happy. They''ll want more languages support, more portability (linux, 2D version), they''ll want more weapons, they''ll want bigger arenas with more complex obstacles, they''ll want 2v2, 3v3 (or more) matches, etc.. If you go for option2 now, i have the feeling this contest *might* never see the light of the day at all..
I don''t like Option3 very much.
Y.
Let''s be honnest: if you go for option2 now, people will never be happy. They''ll want more languages support, more portability (linux, 2D version), they''ll want more weapons, they''ll want bigger arenas with more complex obstacles, they''ll want 2v2, 3v3 (or more) matches, etc.. If you go for option2 now, i have the feeling this contest *might* never see the light of the day at all..
I don''t like Option3 very much.
Y.
Option 1 wouldn''t be good for those who want to enter and have issues, so I think either options 2 or 3 are a must. I personally don''t care for prizes, and hence option 3 is most appealing to me. I think it would be fun to challenge others in the mean time. The only problem with this option is that it gives people time to build up experience and practically dominate any future contestants who know little to nothing about the system.
Alternatively there is another option. You could make the program open source and let the public finish it up. Rather than actually developing the code you can just spend such time supervising the additions and modify them if people tend to go off track. Or perhaps deligate the activity to a localized group where things sould be more in control. In this case option 2 is possible with the change from X months to complete to X weeks to complete.
In either scenario, option 2 would eventually be nice since I''m certain most people will want to make a ladder out of this game. It would be an effective way to attract new AI developers.
Alternatively there is another option. You could make the program open source and let the public finish it up. Rather than actually developing the code you can just spend such time supervising the additions and modify them if people tend to go off track. Or perhaps deligate the activity to a localized group where things sould be more in control. In this case option 2 is possible with the change from X months to complete to X weeks to complete.
In either scenario, option 2 would eventually be nice since I''m certain most people will want to make a ladder out of this game. It would be an effective way to attract new AI developers.
I would say 3, that would allow anyone that wants to get going to do so but it wouldn''t stop others that maybe having a problem with some of the bugs..
this would be a great way to test the system, you''d get all the the bugs worked out in the program and the whole contest format.. that way when the contest is started for prizes it would run smooth and there would be less chance of someone feeling cheated because of a flaw in the design of the program or the contest its self
Please visit Turt99 Productions
this would be a great way to test the system, you''d get all the the bugs worked out in the program and the whole contest format.. that way when the contest is started for prizes it would run smooth and there would be less chance of someone feeling cheated because of a flaw in the design of the program or the contest its self
Please visit Turt99 Productions
I would say Option 1, except that you just work on the exe to work on most machines. Just work on the bugs that simply stop it from running on certain machine, and use that, and like someone else said, start developing a better one for next year''s (or whenever) arena contest.
I vote #3. You never know what logistical problems you''re going to get until you actually send it out to a whole bunch of people; I''d rather that things be going horribly wrong while there *isn''t* a significant prize at stake. (Awarding a ''is teh win'' title next to the champion''s name would be small enough to not qualify as significant while still being cool).
I''d also recommend you get a little help writing it. Getting other people to look at it will often help uncover bugs, and if you pick the right people then it''ll all be done faster. I volunteer to help out, if you''re interested - I''ve come up with this engine we might be able to use...
Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3
I''d also recommend you get a little help writing it. Getting other people to look at it will often help uncover bugs, and if you pick the right people then it''ll all be done faster. I volunteer to help out, if you''re interested - I''ve come up with this engine we might be able to use...
Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3
Option 3 ... that way people who aren''t familiar with AI get a chance to get acquainted with it and everyone gets a chance to see other tactics in action. Then, when the real contest starts, it will be a strong competition. It would, in a sense, be an extention of the initial idea of uploading "rough" bots half way through the contest ... instead, we''d be writing bots completely ... and then adapting to the new arena, opponent tactics, etc.
I like option #3. It would give beginners (like me) a chance to learn the basics, and (as we all know) the executable still needs some work.
BtG
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