I would like to start up a small development house with a few people I know. Unfortunately, most of the information I have read on the net or in books regards submitting a game idea. We have no interest at this time in developing our own IP. We would like to obtain publisher funding to do a licensed title. We don't really care what license it is, (although we have a few semi-realistic preferences) and see it as an opportunity to make something unexpectedly enjoyable. Currently we are in possession of: -3 Talented people (artist, programmer, mapper) -A well-received mod to showcase our ability to get something done. -Willing and happy to be 'stuck' doing a licensed game. What we are lacking is: -A license -A publisher to fund the startup We are realistic about a few things, we know that in order to do this we will probably need to at least triple our team size. Even so, we do not expect to compete with Half-Life 2 in terms of technology or anything and would need the money to purchase a Source or UT license. It is not really possible for us to fund this out of our own pocket and we are not going to find people who will work for free because that's not going to be efficient/quality in the long run. Which would be the best approach? To contact a publisher or license holder first? And how would you go about doing that? Or are publishers like Acclaim, Activision, EA, etc. so big nowadays that whenever they pick up a license they can just create a new team internally to do it?

Well, you're going to need a lot of luck to get a publisher to sign you. For a licenced game or not, they always (99.99%) use teams that have completed, published games in the past. Paying for an engine, etc. comes with a publishing agreement. Saying you want to do a project, etc. doesn't help since there are loads of people/teams who want to make games.

I don't want to sound to put you off but I bet you cannot even get a publisher to talk to you seriously about doing a license. It's not that easy. They still would need to invest 1M+ USD in your team. It is much easier for them to pick a team that has just done title x or y and is now available.

The only option you have is to fund a very good, commercial quality game demo yourself and hunt for a publisher. Stress: commercial quality otherwise it will be impossible to find a publisher, unless you want to go budget title, in which case the money is about 5% of a normal title.

You'd still need a real office and studio though cause a publisher WILL visit you and your team before signing anything.(8-15 people is what they'll want to see working). If you were going to invest 1M+, would you mind spending a few thousand first to fly out and check out the team?


Good luck,

Mark

[edited by - Mark Tanner on July 12, 2003 1:28:14 PM]

Unfortunately you''re not going to be able to find a publisher with those requisites. Publishers want experience, and a team of 3 people with nothing commercial to show is not going to fly. If you went through the process of development to having a nearly complete commercial quality game then that would be different. Its just a publisher is not going to throw money away to an unproven team. A mod is fine, but its extremely far from a complete, scheduled development of an entire game.

Thanks for the honest feedback guys. This is what I really wanted to know. The major problem from my standpoint is that I would rather not get a group of people working on a project to produce a publisher demo. I mean, if we had the resources to pay a large team we wouldn''t need investment.

Do you think a publisher would be interested if we had a solid demo but clearly pointed out that we would need to do a lot of hiring at the start? Also, if we put together something really tight using an existing engine like UT or Quake in the form of a mod in the span of a week or two do you think that would be a selling point for the team or would they rather see something that is twice as good but took several months?

Again that would be near impossible. If you have a solid demo, why would you need to hire many new people? If I''m a publisher, that would sound suspect.

If a publisher is interested enough in the demo, it should be good quality. You can always hire a few more members, but saying ''we''ll hire when you start giving us the money'' won''t work.

All the publisher wants to do is get a game at the lowest possible risk. That means no changing teams/plans later on, having experienced team members who have completed at least one other commercial game and no financial unknowns.

If you do a mod, you demonstrate some skills, but you will still need an engine, write all the base code, IO/ saving/loading, graphics code, game design + all concept art, etc. etc. Again, they won''t want to pay for the engine unless you can prove you can finish a complete game. In the end, a mod won''t get you a publishing deal.

And what if, like most publishers, they want an Xbox or PS2 version in the deal? Microsoft or Sony won''t even approve you if you don''t have experienced people on your team who have done another game. And again the publisher won''t pay or sign you before they have approval from Microsoft/Sony to do the game on their console...

Experienced people won''t want to join your team unless you can pay them monthly wages, so the only option remains making a complete game demo (playable, commercial quality) with your current team and then approach a publisher. It needs to be 50%+ completed otherwise again they will think the risk is too great.
Sure, it will take a year or longer, professional music, artwork and coding and a great engine, but it''s the only way.

If you''re asking why there is no other way, that''s because there isn''t. If there was, there would be loads of small teams with publisher budgets to make games.

A million+ USD is still a lot of money and publishers have been in business long enough to know what they want to see as a minimum. If you say ''look we can do it cheaper'' then they may again see something suspicious in that.

The guys with the money make all the decisions..


Take care,

Mark

These days not using middleware or an existing engine seems unwise. Perhaps I am mistaken but creating a quality title in 18 months while also building new tech from scratch is damn near impossible. That is why I would prefer to get a license to an existing engine.

Maybe this would have been a better question to ask... let''s say you have the other areas of a presentation taken care of. How would you go about factoring an engine license (of around $250,000) into a development budget?

The license fee for an engine is just part of any contract you sign with a publisher. It''s not that 250K is too much; you factor in xxx thousands USD for music, xxx for special software, motion capture, etc.

The problem you have is that (if I understand the plan you have) you need an engine like the latest UnReal or DoomIII (not Quake like you said I hope cause it''s too old!) to make your demo. But no-one will pay you 250K+ to buy it before they have seen a very good stand-alone (not mod) game demo.

You''re in a vicious cirle. You cannot just skip a step that every new developer goes through: to get the attention of a publisher you need to get out a demo with a team and engine you paid for yourself. That means not a 250K engine unless you have got the cash yourself.

It''s like you''re saying: ''I could win tomorrow''s race but you''ll need to give me a Ferrari to do it.'' That and the fact that other people won''t not only have a problem spending that on you, they also don''t have any guarantee you will actually win, unless you have won races in the past. Get the connection

HTH

Mark

Yeah I see the problem. The reason I posted here was to see if anyone knew of a way around it.

Btw Mark do you mind if I ask what your position is in the game industry and if you have ever done this before? If so, how did you do?

There is really no easy way around it. Also, do not underestimate the amount of coding work that needs to be done when you get an engine. You still need to game to have its own look and feel, concept, music, voice talent, intro videos, characters which are cool enough to be blown up to 6ft. posters, etc. And don''t forget that office you need..

Yeah, I''m working in the game industry. This year has been way, way too good for me, but I am not entirely working the conventional way.

BTW, you sound ok to me, I mean accepting facts without dreaming too much. Try finding an alternative to the UnReal/Doom3 engine, there are alternatives.. the only thing you need to be aware of is it takes a while plus talent to create something a publisher will buy. You''ll still need to invest some money, unfortunately.


Mark

hey,
first, I just want to say that i still think its possible to create the engine and technology, and great game (especially if you have the right ideas). And, with that get the attention of the publisher.
Like Mark said, they want to see that you have got what it takes already.

Next I want to say that it''s cool what your doin.
See, I am working on my own engine. An engine that I have put alot of good ideas into, and i want to make my own game with it.
I believe i know what it takes to give a great game, and i know that i could do it myself if i had 2 years and lots of time on my hands. but, honestly i don''t want to do it all by myself.
I''d like to work with people and make a great game. It''s my opinon its a lot more fun that way.
If you want to know more about my engine, i''d be happy to answer any questions.

Mind if I ask, how much do love games, and makin them.
My anwer is: DUDE, I LOVE IT! :-D

Justin Michael Schmidt.
King of Stars.