I propose that CRPGs should now be called Strategic Story-driven Statistical Management Games (SSDSMG). Why? Because IMO giving them the label of "Role-Playing" games is a complete fallacy. You see, there isn't really much role playing going on. But there is roleplaying! Your playing the role of a guy, right?! Well, you play a role in just about every game. So if you judge by that then you could call any game a "roleplaying" game. So then what defines an RPG? IMO it's that you define your character's personality through actions, statements, and whatnot. Choosing a skill set isn't really true roleplaying, IMHO -- it just means that you chose to be stronger in some areas than you are in others. So, getting to the point, IMO we should throw away the misconception that stat juggling is "role-playing" and work on allowing the player real choices in games (especially MMORPG's). ------------------------------------------------------- Working on bringing to life the worlds first 4D engine! Edited by - TheGoop on 6/18/00 7:40:13 PM

You forgor Linear. Just squeeze it between Strategic and Story.

I couldn't agree more, TheGoop. The term RPG is misconceived quite a lot these days. Choices are the most important part IMO. You cannot roleplay (at least not interactively) without them. It's just as important in single-player RPGs too.

Edited by - Nazrix on June 18, 2000 8:58:20 PM

Oh no...
We cannot use the Linear word with that Landfish guy around. He''ll have a fit!

You got a point... almost. Can''t we roleplay if we want in UO?

Gaiomard Dragon
-===(UDIC)===-

You''re right on that... But I''m gonna share my opinion on that (ok you don''t need it...).


(( Everything after this point is not absolute but relative to my poor self... no I''m not on crack ))

The bad truth is, you won''t be able to describe RPG or RPG-style by a definition. It''s undefined and not really definable.
By ethimology, a RolePlaying Game would be a game where you play a role. That seems obvious, but here goes the trouble: you can''t say that all games are RPG since you play the role of someone (Say a marine in Doom), somewhere (Mars) with some story ("oh no! they try to invade the earth") and some coolness (what''s cooler than a shotgun in Doom).
Although it may seem obvious that you are NOT playing a RPG with Doom[1], you are pretty sure you play a role[2]. So that definition is not viable. Really?

Another stupid example[3] is theater. I don''t know if you concider the characters on the scene roleplaying, but I do. But what differences are there between Doom and Theater[4]? Mmmh... That''s where I''m going.

In my opinion, roleplaying games are a genre of games. What makes the difference between RPG and stupid first-person shooter[5] is the energy put by the team on different parts of the game. I mean that in a RPG more time is used to get a good story, a good stat systems and some interaction between players. The first thing we can see in doom is the lack of stats and interaction[6]. That what makes a true RPG-genre game.
Therefore, I think that Doom is a roleplay game (and every game too) but is not in the Genre of.


So no need to call something SSDSMG or even worse (Where did you get the name, anyway?), I just propose that from now on we make a distinction between RPG-genre games and other genre by checking the way the game is aiming at.

But that''s already done... So we don''t need to change the world.


[1] Discussable, but I think I should win on that.
[2] For some social purpose, I won''t go as far as stating you play a role when you get up from bed, but some jerks I know do and that really suck.
[3] I would go on Doom II, but that''d only prove my lack of imagination.
[4] Please, don''t tell me they don''t have RocketLauncher and shouting everywhere killing trolls and mechanics spider, I would be disappointed.
[5] Rest are dead.
[6] I kill you, you kill me.

Programming is: A.The art of debugging a blank sheet of paper (or an empty file).B.A pastime similar to banging one's head against a wall, but with fewer opportunities for reward.C.The most fun you can have with your clothes on (although clothes are not mandatory).

i think a good measure of whether a game is an rpg or not is to compare it to good old pen and paper rpgs.. and i haven''t seen any that can stand up to that comparison. with pen and paper, you can do practically anything you can think of. with a video game, that''s simply not possible. so for many "rpgs" the closest thing you get to roleplaying is deciding whether to say sentence A, B, C, or D...

I''m playing (as a DM) pen & paper RPG since years...
Players are free but not as much as they think about the story, about the way to pass a given problem they are nearly totally free.

The problem is that in pen & paper RPG you got a human being with a clue and much knowledge in front of you that will find a good way to use your asumptions and thinking about what the story is to enhanced the gameplay experience, while a clueless computer can''t.

Designing a RPG I''m trying to program all the tricks I use in RPG, but the most famous and best tricks can''t be programmed.
The computer simply can''t know when you''re thrilling, what character you want to see again, which other character you hate...
It cannot know ''who'' you are and change the stryline to fit your desires while a DM can.

But the computer can let you choose you''re roll and encure as a MD that you''re playing it well.
The problem is that if you want to change, the computer will be in troubles.

MMORPG in which you play a role ??
I don''t think there''s any available, you rather are just an ever killing ever improving being with no need to eat, to drink or whatever the designer feel was not good for gameplay...

Any people in here having played pen & paper RPG that wasn''t in a desert without water or find himself in trouble cause he lost his food ?
And the character you met that helped you, didn''t you find him a great guy and wrote his name down to your character sheet in the ''FRIENDS'' column ?

Too many missing features, not enough freedomn, no story or a linear one... What ever the game they simply can''t be like pen & paper RPG.

Maybe Computer RPG must be defined as a special RPG genre ?
Any definition for CRPG ?

I propose : A game in which your goal is to go follow a story, to enhanced your character''s abilities, to kill the bad guys, and to solve puzzles.

-* Sounds, music and story makes the difference between good and great games *-

What about Vampire the Masquerade?

I''ve been a fan of the pen ''n'' paper game for years and I''m anxiously awaiting the computer version.

Wasn''t that meant to be more of a roleplaying game in the traditional sense?

Has anybody here played it?

Mike

Granted Computer RPGs will never offer the freedom of pen ''n paper. I think one thing that could offer a lot of non-linearity is instead of some guy coming up to the player and offering him a quest of some sort, let the player seek out the adventures most of the time. The game working off the player''s curiosity or vengence or seek for power or money, lets the player choose the types of situations to encounter.