They''re suppose to be the same thing but I''m not sure. Apparently "orc" was replaced with "goblin" by some editor in The Hobbit. People tend to associate orc with just ordinary orcs, and goblins as smaller, less powerful orcs.

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the Historic battles would be very very cool, but technically there were too many people in some of the battles

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True, but the numbers could be reduced and still stay faithful to the actual battles. I''m sure only the most hardcore fans would really mind.

"Well, on second thought, let''''s not go to Camelot -- it is a silly place."

Hold on i must get the handy-dandy atlas of middle earth:

THE BATTLE OF THE PELENNOR FIELDS
March 15, T.A. 3019

Forces of Gondor and Rohan:

captian________Arrived From_________Troops
Forlong-----------Lossarnach-----------200 "well armed"
Dervorin----------Ringlo Vale----------300
Duinhir-----------Morthond-------------500 "bowmen"
Golasgil--------- Anfalas--------------150 (est.)
---------------------------------------"scantily equipped"

-leaderless-------Larnedon-------------50 (est.) "hillmen"
-leaderless-------Ethir Anduin---------100 "fisher-folk"
Hirluin-----------Pinnath Gelin--------300
Prince Imrahil----Dol Amroth-----------1200 (est.) + a
---------------------------------------"company on horse"
Denethor----------Minas Tirith---------2000 (est.)
Theoden/Eomer-----Rohan (the Mark)-----6000 Cavalry
Aragorn + Rangers-The North------------30 rangers
-leaderless-------Southern Fiefs-------1000 (est.)

Total Estimated Forces of Gondor: 11,250


Forces of Mordor and Allies:

captian________Arrived From_________Troops
Angmar/Gothmog----BaradDur/MinasMorgul-20,000 (est.)
Haradrim----------Near and Far Harad---18,000
Others------------Rhun/Khand-----------7,000 (est.)

Total Estimated Forces of Mordor: (minimum) 45,000







[edited by - MrPoopypants on April 3, 2003 9:42:03 PM]

THE BATTLE OF THE HORNBURG
March 3-4, T.A. 3019

The Forces of Rohan and Allies


captian________Arrived From_________Troops
Theoden/Eomer--Edoras---------------1000 cavalry
GamblingTheOld-Helm''s Deep----------1000 infantry
Erkenbrand-----Fords of Isen--------1000 infantry
Ents-----------Fangorn--------------"Hundreds and Hundreds"

Total Rohirric Forces March 3: 2000
Total Rohirric Forces March 4: (est.) 3800 (of whom 2700 fought)

The Host of Saruman


captian________Arrived From_________Troops
*saruman*------Isengard-------------10,000+
------------------------------------(Uruks, orcs, wolves, Dunlendings)

do i know my LOTR, or do i KNOW my LOTR?

Didn''t you hate how Jackson had the elves involved at the battle of Helm''s Deep? The only thing worse than that was how badly he portrayed Faramir''s charcter...could he have made him more opposite than how Tolkein portrayed him?

Ah well, I agree with others in that the older wars from the 1st and 2nd age would be cooler. The War of Beleriand had Balrogs and Dragons as part of their army...imagine armies of balrogs and dragons...and imagine a fight against Morgoth who would make Suaron look like a little school girl, or against Ancalagon who''d make Smaug look like a midget hobbit (and who''s death created a mountain range).

I''m not sure how you''d play the Valar or even Maia who occasionally fought. Also, I wonder if Tom Bombadil ever fought? He''s a strange character that some think might be Eru himself.

Alas, this may all be in vain, since the Tolkein family is VERY protective of their property (maybe moreso than Disney even). Any modders who did this would probably have lawsuits laid against them in a heartbeat. And if you do it legally, it''d probably cost a small fortune to get the license.

Tom Bombadil could be left safely on the sidelines for the most part - within his (self-imposed) boundaries, he is the Master, but he does not concern himself with what lays beyond.

According to The Encyclopedia of Arda Tolkien has stated definitively:

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"There is no embodiment of the One, of God, who indeed remains remote, outside the World, and only directly accessible to the Valar or Rulers."
The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien No 181, dated 1956

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so Tom is not Eru, and in fact does not appear to belong to any known race or order of beings.

While attempting to recreate the great battles of the First Age of the sun would be fun, I''m not convinced an RTS is quite the right format for battles between forces capable of reshaping the earth, creating the sun, etc.

Possibly more profitable to explore the high legends with an adventure game or similar - tell the tale of Beren and Luthien for example, or some other of the great tales of individual heroics.

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Original post by Dauntless
Didn''t you hate how Jackson had the elves involved at the battle of Helm''s Deep? The only thing worse than that was how badly he portrayed Faramir''s charcter...could he have made him more opposite than how Tolkein portrayed him?

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Yes, i was extremely dissapointed about that... TTT was great but it could have been soooo much better... argh.. The Return of the King better make up for it, or i will cry.

does anyone have any info on Total War modding?

a middle earth total war is not a revolutionary idea. the warhammer series of computer games, namely shadow of the horned rat, used the original game engine that you see in total war. it had all the creatures in lord of the rings except hobbits and individual characters from tolkiens books. maybe they could make a warhammer total war since they have the copyrights to produce games based on tolkiens middle earth.

1. They are making a LOTR RTS game.
2. LOTR is getting old.