quote: Original post by Wikkyd
Its all what you consider a business app. I think of business apps as things like financial software, web based apps, and things of that order.

What about data mining? Transforming multi-terrabyte databases into structures such that you can run queries on them which take in the order of seconds to run? Taking a table of 16 million CD sales (say), and being able to query that table to find out the top 10 CDs of the year? Or finding out the demographic of consumers who prefer Jazz music? That''s a business app, and I''d say orders of magnitude more "difficult" than any game.

Don''t just think about MS Money or Word as business apps. Sure, MYOB is a business app, but then Lemmings is a game. If you''re comparing "high-end" games with business app, make sure you compare with "high-end" business apps.

By the way, as an aside, I find the high-end business apps to be more "fun" than writing games anyway. I''d take getting the chance to work on $10 million dollar hardware than working 80 hours a week on a game which may not even be successful any day

If I had my way, I''d have all of you shot! codeka.com - Just click it.

I''m working on a 3D engine but the basics (rendering, collision) are finished. What''s left is some slight optimisations and additional features (lightmaps for example). Yet the most advanced math course I''ve taken was Calculus 2, and my engine uses no calculus. In fact nothing except trigonometry is used. So I disagree with the sentiment that advanced math is needed to do a 3D engine. It is heavy on math, but not "advanced" math.

~CGameProgrammer( );

quote: Original post by Dean Harding
What about data mining? Transforming multi-terrabyte databases into structures such that you can run queries on them which take in the order of seconds to run? Taking a table of 16 million CD sales (say), and being able to query that table to find out the top 10 CDs of the year? Or finding out the demographic of consumers who prefer Jazz music? That's a business app, and I'd say orders of magnitude more "difficult" than any game.

And advancd 3d graphic engines dont make use of such advanced sorting and searching algorithms? Good engines written properly certainly do.

Not to mention all the new Massive Multi Player Games hitting the marketplace. You think they dont make use of such databases? They surely do as well.

But I hardly see how writing code that makes use of a database could be considered that challenging. Most business apps that make use of such databases merely make SQL calls. Writing the drivers to run such a database, now that is a different matter entirely.

[edited by - Wikkyd on December 12, 2002 7:09:40 AM]

quote: Original post by Wikkyd
Its all what you consider a business app. I think of business apps as things like financial software, web based apps, and things of that order.

You might like to note that the OP never mentioned "business apps". He made a distinction between game programming vs. "normal" programming. The notion of normal programming equating to business apps came in later, probably from a limited understanding of what is meant by non-game programming. For a good example of "normal" programming which is most certainly extremely complicated, something like this represents the sorts of problems that the "real world" can throw up. There is nothing which says game programming is harder than any other form of programming.

quote:
Original post by heeseGrater
Animation blending - Reducible to matrix multiplies. These days you can even let the hardware do this for you, since we've got ARB_vertex_blend.

Do you mean Skinning?

When I said animation blending I was referring merging 2 animation sets together to make a new single animation.

For instance say I have a skinned mesh with a walking animation ( with keyframed bones ) and another animation of same model standing where he waves his left hand.

Now merge these two together so you have a walking model waving his hand.

NetImmerse 4.0 is supposed to do this. Im still scratching my head on how to make an algorithm that will do this. If you know of where I could get some good leads on this it would be mucho appreaciated.

[edited by - Wikkyd on December 12, 2002 7:58:54 AM]

quote: Original post by Wikkyd
Do you mean Skinning?

When I said animation blending I was referring merging 2 animation sets together to make a new single animation.

Terminology disconnect, then. I mistook for multi-bone vertex weights.

quote:
NetImmerse 4.0 is supposed to do this. Im still scratching my head on how to make an algorithm that will do this. If you know of where I could get some good leads on this it would be mucho appreaciated.

I don''t know any really good article or tutorial style references off hand, but if you download the Half-life SDK, their animation blending code is in the source provided by the SDK.

If you google around the web for ''9 way blending'' you can also find counterstrike''s version of the animation blending source, which can blend even more animations simultaneously.

quote: Original post by SabreMan
For a good example of "normal" programming which is most certainly extremely complicated, something like this represents the sorts of problems that the "real world" can throw up.

That sounds more interesting than a 3D game engine. I''m looking into artificial intelligence myself, and computer games being a *possible* career with that.

note: not hijacking thread

so obviously game programmers don''t get paid that much because of commission (or lack thereof), income distribution (publishers, shippers, etc), and because of high demand (many programmers want jobs) and low supply (not enough jobs to give out).

what can the gaming industry do to elevate income?
sell each other proprietary engines and other software?
distribute games from the web?

so what say you?

quote: Original post by Wikkyd

And advancd 3d graphic engines dont make use of such advanced sorting and searching algorithms? Good engines written properly certainly do.

You don''t know what your talking about-- most of you here don''t. You can''t possibly imagine how big and complicated some of these things are.

SAP, a financial system for larger orginizations (like, the government) can take a year just to INSTALL. Do you understand how massivley complex that is????

Will

quote: Original post by Alpha_ProgDes
what can the gaming industry do to elevate income?

Take the publishers out of the picture! If broadband were commonplace, people could just download the game, burn it to a CD and go. Of course, that would mean no boxes, manuals, or other goodies. It might also tick off the game boutique companies.