I had read, that game programmers don''t earns as much as "normal" programmers, why? It''s much easier to make a "normal" program for economy and so on, but it''s very difficult to write a 3D Game, and you''ll need a lot of math.

Well seeing that most (or alot, ...well many) programming jobs are subsidizied, funded, sponsored or just backed by the gov't, makes them high paying jobs. Also alot of the companies have a large niche in their marketplace (e.g. Sun, Microsoft) so they get massive revenue. Game companies on the other hand only get paid on what they sell. And they have to split that with publishers, shippers, advertisers, and who knows what else (well everybody has to deal with advertisers and shippers, but i don't think many companies have the "problems" game companies have with publishers, especially with them taking such a large portion of the commission/income). So if you're not selling a million games within a couple of months regularly then chances are you're not gonna make much and not be able to pay your employees much either.

but that's IMO.

edit: had to change bold

[edited by - Alpha_ProgDes on December 10, 2002 9:03:22 AM]

quote: Original post by dcgeek
I had read, that game programmers don''t earns as much as "normal" programmers, why?

I suspect supply and demand to be a major culprit. There are a lot of game programming wannabes.

quote:
It''s much easier to make a "normal" program for economy and so on

What line of reasoning leads you to that conclusion?

quote: Original post by Alpha_ProgDes
Well seeing that most (or alot, ...well many) programming jobs are subsidizied, funded, sponsored or just backed by the gov''t, makes them high paying jobs.

where in the world did you hear this from?

i doubt you have ever worked for a US govt. agency or under contract with them. US govt. programming work is routinely one of the worst paying gigs to be had. as are most govt. jobs from federal, state, on down.

If government jobs are so bad, why do so many people love getting work with it?
Or is it just programmers that have crappy government jobs while everyone else gets paid premium wages?

The government (where I am anyway) doesn''t pay much compared to private industry. Maybe the US is different, but I doubt it.

To say that writing video games is any harder than other commercial products is misleading. You assume that most people write office tools. Desktop computers account for less than 1% of the computers on the planet. Most of us never see the really usefull software that affects us everyday.

I''ve only ever worked on one ''office tool''. I can tell you that it was not easy. The ''simple'' front end masked nearly 11 million lines of code that went in to the product.

Will

Government jobs nearly ALWAYS pay much less than private sector jobs.

People still sometimes prefer govt jobs though simply because they are very stable. Companies go out of business constantly, especially in hard times like now, whereas modern governments are stable. Also government jobs usually have good benefits. My wife worked as a social worker and got better benefits than ANY software company I ever worked for.


Game programming harder than ''regular'' programming projects?

Too an extent, yes I think it is harder but for one reason:

Game programmers, especially 3d game programmers, require much more knowledge than the average college graduate with a computer science bachelors.

I myself have a physics degree with a computer science minor and I can speak from experience. Most of the guys I studied with in the CS department wouldnt even know where to begin coding a 3d app much less adding any realistic type physics effects.

I think the reason game programmers make less is due to royalties. Game publishing companies get the majority of the cut of the profits.

RPGeezus, i couldn''t agree more, on all counts. i''ve already tried to address the misconception Alpha_ProgDes had re: govt. pay in the US.

your 11 million lines of code would be considered a small sub-system for most of the fortune 500 companies i''ve worked for. anyone that thinks "real" business programming is easier than game programming has not done any "real" business programming.

dcgeek, as a "normal" business programmer/analyst, i use more languages, programming paradigms, apis, tools, techniques, math, etc., than i would ever do so in creating even the most complex game. i program for more types of hardware, OSs, databases, communications protocols, etc., than i would ever do so as well. i interact with more end users, corporate officers, managers, teams, etc., than i would ever do so either. i am routinely asked to merge diverse systems together, or make complex, cross-system modifications, as if it were child''s play; by people with the same lack of knowledge as yourself. i also am on call 24/7, required to get up at 3 am and dial in to immediately address a problem halfway around the world, and still show up at work on time that morning.

i could go on, but it''s kind of pointless.

quote: anyone that thinks "real" business programming is easier than game programming has not done any "real" business programming.

Perhaps you havent done any 'real' game programming? Im sorry I dont want to sound mean but I couldnt DIS-agree more.

Ive programmed both Business and Science based applications ( and 3d game programming for 1 year now.)

Most Computer Science majors lack advanced mathematics knowledge. Coding Science based apps require knowledge that can only be gained via a physics, mathematics, or other engineering degree. Nearly all universities only require CS majors to take very basic mathematics courses.

Game programming easier than business apps? A 2d sprite game yes. A 3d game? No way. Business apps are FAR easier to code.

Why do I bring up science apps? Because 3d game programming requires advanced mathematics on the level of some science applications.

Coding a 3d game engine with collision detection, collision response, skinned mesh animation, animation blending, particle effects, other bells and whistles requires an extensive mathematics background.

Bottom line is, a person needs BOTH a good computer science as well a good mathematics background to do anything above spinning cubes and spheres....

So yes modern 3d game programming is another level above regular business apps.

[edited by - Wikkyd on December 11, 2002 4:06:55 AM]

quote: Original post by Wikkyd
So yes modern 3d game programming is another level above regular business apps.

Have to agree. Any entry level programmer can crank out the average business app. Granted there might be an exceptionally difficult business app every once in a while but those are exceptions rather than the norm. It takes a serious programmer of above average ability to do even an average 3D game. For a AAA title, even more so. I can do almost any business app in my sleep, but I''m still struggling with 3D.