I am wondering how you can call it an MMORPG without the RP. Because of this I am trying to think of ideas to reinforce Roleplay. I have NO thoughts so far on how this can be done... any thoughts?

See "Social Interaction between Players in an MMORPG", the thread immediately below yours at the moment... it has much discussion on just this subject.

The ''problem'' is that your own definition of roleplaying is not the same as other people''s.

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quote: Original post by Kylotan
The ''problem'' is that your own definition of roleplaying is not the same as other people''s.

but you see there is only one definition of role playing.. and that is acting out a role of someone else. thats what the whole intention of a p2p rpg was when they were thought of. that got lost in computer rpg''s due to limitations of technology.. but technology is no longer a bottleneck anymore. so why is roleplaying, the most intrical part of an rpg, still being ignored? its been forgotten by most people thats why.



"The human mind is limited only by the bounds which we impose upon ourselves." -iNfuSeD

Yup, role-playing is hard to describe since everybody seems to have different ideas about the subject.

My idea of "role-playing" is that you make up a character and then try to inpersonate that person when you talk to other people. In a "true rpg" (in my opinion) you don''t need stats, skills or levels, since it''s YOU who creates your character, not the game.

But I''m very aware that not all agree with me. One person suggested that I should add more stats to my online rpg because it "help role-playing". Obvious disagreement!

I''m not forcing role-playing on my game since I don''t enjoy role-playing very much myself. From my experience role-players are often very aggressive against players who doesn''t "play by the rules", so I came to the conclusion not to mix the different kinds of players. If I''m going to make the game more rpg-friendly I will have a separate server for that kind of gameplay.



My Stuff : [ Whispers in Akarra (online rpg) || L33T WAR (multiplayer game) || The Asteroid Menace (another game) ]

quote: Original post by iNfuSeD
but you see there is only one definition of role playing.. and that is acting out a role of someone else.

Totally incorrect. It''s a term used by many different people to mean many different things. What it doesn''t necessarily mean is having to act ''in character'' all the time.

quote: thats what the whole intention of a p2p rpg was when they were thought of.

p2p? Peer to peer? What are you talking about? Do you mean pen and paper? Even so, you would be pretty wrong... Dungeons and Dragons, the first ''rpg'', was more of a tactical wargame than the whole ''storytelling'' idea of ''roleplaying'' that you seem to think is the ''real'' definition.

For most people, the chance to become a ranger or wizard and kill dragons in a fantasy world is roleplaying. They''re playing the role of a heroic adventurer. Just because you want them to also pretend to act and speak the part doesn''t mean your definition is any more right than theirs.

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There''s a current trend within the "hardcore" pen-and-paper D&Ders to group "roleplayers" into three separate groups:
1. The simulationist.
This person plays the role of his character through the stats. However the dice come up, it''s alright, because this is a "character simulation". Realism is very important, and so is "sticking to the rules" because doing anything less would be reducing the character embodied within the stats. The term "rules lawyer" comes from this type of character, but don''t be fooled, simulationists ARE real role-players.

2. The narrationist.
To this person, the story is the most important thing. He will gleefully act out all the gruesome details of his character''s untimely demise, and enjoy it, if it furthers the story. If a dice roll obstructs the story flow? Fudge it. If a rule or statistic prevents the natural flow of the story? Oh well, the exceptions prove the rule!

3. The gameist.
To this person, role-playing is a game. A module is there to be finished. The story is filler. The statistics are there to be bent to breaking point. Maximise your advantage over the other! It''s all about finishing, it''s all about winning, it''s about being better than the others around the table.


Now, my perspective is biased. I''m 95% narrationist. However, my bestest role-playing buddy is 95% simulationist. I''ve known a few gamists. None of these are bad players. They just lay their accents and priorities in completely different areas, and this does lead to occasional conflict.

quote: I am wondering how you can call it an MMORPG without the RP. Because of this I am trying to think of ideas to reinforce Roleplay. I have NO thoughts so far on how this can be done... any thoughts?

All you really have to do is create roles for your players to play.

You can''t have it all though. If you want to create a game that attracts the same type of players current MMORPGs attract, you''ll have to do some of the things those games are now doing. You''d be trying to focus on the leveling aspect (the ''leveling'' aspect can apply to actual levels, or skill levels, or magic levels, or even item acquisition), which is pretty much as far removed from playing ''roles'' as can be (it focuses more on ''roll'' than ''role'').

Focus on providing roles first. What role do you want your player to be able to play? What kind of things should he be able to do? What would the fun things of that role be? What would the less exciting aspects of that role be? How is this role different from other roles? How does a player play his role well? What other roles does this role often cooperate with?

Once you have narrowed down the roles you want your players to play, your gameplay should start to evolve.

quote: Original post by MadKeithV
None of these are bad players. They just lay their accents and priorities in completely different areas, and this does lead to occasional conflict.

Yeah... and the problem I see most of from a Game Design point of view is that the narrationists, instead of simply saying that there's no game that currently suits them, sometimes try to get some sort of moral upper ground by claiming that the other 2 types are not 'true' roleplayers. The answer is not to try and force them to 'roleplay properly', but to provide new games that actually offer something for the people who believe in impersonating the character and following a narrative.

One way is to add some sort of peer appraisal system where you rate the performance of others. This would be used for advancement of some nature. You could also flag offenders for a GM to check up on, to discourage people from annoying others.



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[edited by - Kylotan on October 14, 2002 4:20:17 PM]

quote: Original post by Kylotan
One way is to add some sort of peer appraisal system where you rate the performance of others. This would be used for advancement of some nature. You could also flag offenders for a GM to check up on, to discourage people from annoying others.

A quick idea I had revolved around a system like the "karma" system used on Slashdot. People who''d achieved lots of karma in the past time period would be given more important roles in the story of the next time period.

However, that means that the only meaningful role-playing will be when interacting with other players. If you''re bravely fighting off hordes of invading bunnies all by your lonesome, and in-character, you still won''t get any karma.

So, perhaps the AI should throw up situations consistent with your character quite regularly, where the easy path is not the in-character path, and if you choose to stay in-character, you''ll get a bit of karma.

The main purpose of the Karma would be to get ''noticed'', either by a human GM or an artifical-intelligence-driven story scripter.