quote: Original post by Shambles
Are you sure? I seem to remember it was cocain. Although it has been some time since I''ve read the story with the addition reference and could be mistaken. Also, I''ve only read one story with such a reference (in a book of selected Holmes stories) and perhaps there are others with different narcotics?

I don''t think cocain was popular at all in his days. I suspect he was an opium user, as many people around that time.

Sorry, both of them. Both injectable. Read "The sign of the four".

quote: Original post by Shambles
irbrian: People like you need your own forum. alfmga is making a game where the creator of his fictional universe (which is his game) is evil. If you read his post closely, he never said they were exact interpretations and a expression of his beliefs.

I read his post plenty carefully, and I know he wasn''t talking about an expression of his beliefs. What I said was that I would personally feel offended by any game that portrayed my God as an evil being.

quote: And secondly, your obviously not religious enough or you would know that the christian curches (not sure about orthodox) oppose electronic-games (RPGs in particular.) There are a slew of people opposed to them. I was exposed to panthlets and the like. And my mother always tried to distance me from such things and said she had "bad feelings" towards these games. And she comes from the most catholic part of the most catholic thing on earth! (Quebec)

I said I was Christian, I never said I was Catholic. I''m not in fact. I don''t believe my faith is on trial here, but I can certainly attest that I am firm in it. Niether my faith or my personal beliefs find anything wrong with video games as a whole. I feel that holding such a belief would be closed-minded of me. But everyone is entitled to their beliefs, and if someone else has that belief then I certainly respect that.

My opinion: Games, like movies, TV, and books, run the gamut of moral expression. To say ALL video games were bad would be no different than saying ALL movies are bad, including G-rated family films. To say that all RPGs are bad would be like saying that all romance films are bad. Many people have bad feelings toward particular content within particular games, and those that do need to understand that what they are opposing is not Video Games, but the content contained in the video game... I object to any content that influences people to do evil, but that has NOTHING to do with games as a medium or art form.

quote: You must be posting on these boards either to try to "change" electronic-games by picturing yourself as a crusader and attacking the root of evil (the game developing community) OR because you genuingly like games and game developing (in its past and current form.) If the later case is true, then I don''t see how you can get into a christian fit over this.

This is humorous, because in fact I DO have a desire to "change" electronic games, but nothing like what you''re describing! I want to make them better, I want to explore moral, emotional, and just plain artistic expression in games. I love Video Games with a passion. So too do I love my God and my religion passionately.

I want the games industry to flourish. That doesn''t have ANY impact on my strong and deeply-rooted Christian beliefs, nor does my religion give me any cause to look down on my pastime.

quote: EDIT: Let me post an exerpt from a pamthlet which has stayed in my memory: "It is easier for the devil to enter you when you pretend to be someone else." The pamthlet was not funded by some cult. Actual catholic/anglican churches do this (at least when I was a kid.)

That pamphlet proposes an interesting view. It is a view that I respect, and yet it is one I WHOLEHEARTEDLY disagree with.

This post is only in response to the one individual listed as the Quotee, above. I wanted to address his comments first, because I felt they most directly conflicted with my own.



Brian Lacy
Smoking Monkey Studios

Comments? Questions? Curious?
brian@smoking-monkey.org

"I create. Therefore I am."

[oops, sorry, this was an accidental post, happened before i was ready.. feel free to delete it]

[edited by - irbrian on October 8, 2002 12:26:08 AM]

quote: Original post by alfmga

God is Good
Yes supposedly he is in our world, but not neccessarily in the andromedia galaxy. As mentioned above, it could be intresting to see a world with a bad god. But remember I am not talking about The God, just some other god (a non existent god)

Boom! You see, this is what I mean when I say that I'm really not as hard to please as people think. On that point right there you sold me. You tell me, and you tell the player, that this "Evil" god you're portraying is not MY God or theirs, and I'm a satisfied man. Relatively open-minded people everywhere (even the "devout" ones, like myself) will likely feel the same.

Ok so, basically when one wants to tackle religion in a videogame, it has to be done in a way that is not linkable to any real life religion, so that people dont get offended by it..but heh people probably will get offended by it no matter how far off it is from the real thing. From most of the replies over here I'd say it's safe to make a game like this, just be careful.

I think those are fair statements. See the thing is, when you mess with something that people hold so sacred as their personal beliefs, you're not just messing with random ideas – you're making insinuations (intentionally or otherwise) about the very core of who they are. A lot of people won't like you for that, and really, who can blame them?

If you center the story around another deity, one that is purely fabricated – yes, people are going to get offended, but in the end, at least you're not directly insulting their own beliefs and feelings. It may make people uncomfortable, but not to the extent as something closer to home.


Brian Lacy
Smoking Monkey Studios

Comments? Questions? Curious?
brian@smoking-monkey.org

"I create. Therefore I am."

[edited by - irbrian on October 9, 2002 1:37:15 PM]

I would just like to say that I am happy that some people can handle a discussion about this topic in a civilized manner. There have been few if any personal attacks made. Usually a discussion like this turns very very ugly. I had a little thing near the end of my post that I expected(after I posted)to get few mean replies about. So far the thread has yet catch on fire, and I hope it stays that way.

I think you should go with your story. I believe you should at least finish the story even if you don''t make a game out of it. It would be very good for you, unless you already have stories/books under your belt. Most writers say that one of the best things to do is to stick with it till the end instead of starting over. Same goes for programming and drawing. It is hard to get anywhere if you don''t finish your projects.

As I said before, if you think it will get too touchy just slap a disclaimer on it. By the time your done it might end up being quite a bit different from the way you intended. You might think of things on the way that would make the religion/races more original and better. At the end you might not even need to worry about it because it will have drifted far away from our reality.

Hope whatever choice you make in the end is a good one.

Good Luck,
Joe

Shambles: You should have responded to that pamthlet with something about reinacting the birth of christ, theatre, movies, books.. They all make you day dream and think of being somewhere/someone else. I find it annoying that computer games don''t get the same privilages as movies/books and theatre. I mean, They all come under the catagory of entertainment and alot of games I''ve played are basically movies with choice points. Plus, games SHOULD be more educational that books/movies/theatre.

If I read a book I can quote a line or two after reading it once.
If I watch a movie I can quote entire scenes after watching it once (and sing bits of the songs).
If I play a computer game (for lets say 2/3 hours (long move length)) I can remember not only speech, but also the enviroment. (admitially this is probably cause everything gets repeated in computer games)

Here is a real life example..

I was studying Japanese characters.. I sat with a book, paper and pencil for 6-8 hours trying to remember all the characters look, sound and style (about 48 character, might be a few more than that I can''t remember now) I managed about half the characters.

After a year had gone by I had forgotten everything, apart from a few simple characters that were stuck in my memory. I started using a game that was made to make you learn the characters. After 2 hours I had learn''t everything and it is still stuck in my head to this day (6 months on)

You may argue that its just me remembering it all, but trust me I had forgotten almost all the characters.

Is it true that Computer Games don''t come under the Freedom of Speech act?

you really have to ask "WHO exactly might i offend".

im not just talking about people who worship a god with a similar description to your creation, but people who are thin-skinned or paranoid anyway.

(bear with me, i will springboard) personally i think all religion is fundamentally flawed, not JUST for the lack of evidence (the universal "do not test your faith!" get-out clause) but partly for the sheer overwhelming odds against that any one of our thousands of religions throuought history got it right, that if there is a divine power we mere mortals would be priviliged to it, but the errors in transmission from the "Mouth Of God" to ancient scripture and firther meaning lost or corrupted in interpretation and translation simply do not represent the original message.<br><br>unless you are going to mark society in general as being of &#111;ne religion, you have to approach this ENTIRELY &#111;n merit: are the twists &#111;n recognised faith clever? does the addition of a fictional hybrid god enhance your story world? and most importantly, does the story EXPLICITLY attach a figure someone loves? because if it doesnt, what we have is a SUBJECTIVE INTERPRETATION that you as a writer are not responsible for! <br><br>********<br><br><br>A Problem Worthy of Attack<br>Proves It''s Worth by Fighting Back

quote: Original post by alfmga
Hello

ive started a rewrite of an rpg ive been working on for a long time, and this rpg has A LOT of relgious elements in it. what i think most of the churches of the world call blasphemous. is this ok for a game. would this kind of content cause a lot of discomfort or anger or whatever?

This game starts at the very beginning, starts from creation, and goes on. and it really twists the bible's or quran'a creation story inside out.

and just for example, god is actually a bad guy! so u guys think this kinda stuff is ok in a game? or do u suggest i change some of it....well i guss most of it?



"I know sometimes I ask stupid questions...but i mean well "
[Triple Buffer]|[SCRIPTaGAME]|[My Old Site]

I am sure it will piss some people off, but don't let that stop you (assuming blasphemy isn't illegal were you are). It would be differant if the goal of your game was something like kill all the /insert religious group here\ (I forgot this board accepts html). Point is don't change your game just because you might offend a few people.


[edited by - prh99 on October 9, 2002 1:54:07 PM]

[edited by - prh99 on October 9, 2002 8:04:01 PM]

Look at this from a religous person''s point of view-- I don''t think it''s that big a deal if you''re not a christian, I mean, think about Diablo--Satan isn''t killable! And baal is not part of christian religion, but they mixed those together, I mean, really, I am a christian, and I wouldn''t make a game like that just because I wouldn''t want to insult my god, but if you''re not, there''s certainly not going to be sales losses on it, because there are several other games out there that propose the strangest things about religion.

Just name your god fred and make sure its not a golden calf, a guy with a lot of arms, or that he died on the cross to forgive our sins (sorry, I''m only familiar with christianity ) and you should be FINE!!!