quote: Original post by KalvinB
As an example of something QB can do with text that C++ in a console could never do:

Uh, hello? There are plenty of text mode libraries that could be used in C and/or C++ in console mode to do exactly that and more. You seem to forget there''s a whole unixy world out there that is all command line based.

Speaking of which, I''m off to resume my ZAngband game. (My lvl 29 Skeleton Chaos-Warrior is a machine!)

-scott

the opinions here have turned into orders of how individuals expect your son to go.
You will utimately make the correct choice. Everyone here has an opinion, some strong, some annoying, but overall there should be enough fuel for you to work something out.

Having said that heh, I agree with having something like java or java-script as a start, but java is close to C.
If he wants to see big explosions on the screen in 5 minutes, learn flash. If you know he has patience, learn some c/c++ with him, that way he and you could explain concepts to each other as you go along. 2 minds are better then one in some parts of the world

I agree with the guitar concept, as having spent some time with children in tutoring in sport before, thats exactly how children usually are. If they love something, they''ll jump on it, otherwise it can be boring in minutes.

My opinions
hope you and your son fair well in his future endeavours!!



HAILS

http://on.to/oni

quote: Original post by fatherjohn666
the opinions here have turned into orders of how individuals expect your son to go.
You will utimately make the correct choice. Everyone here has an opinion, some strong, some annoying, but overall there should be enough fuel for you to work something out.

Hehe, true. It''s kind of become a war, QB vs. C\C++\Java\something else... Hopefully I''m not in that category of people with annoying opinions . A lot of the choice does depend on your son and how serious and patient he is.

"There are plenty of text mode libraries that could be used in C and/or C++ in console mode to do exactly that and more."

Exactly my point. It takes extra overhead do it than just firing up the compiler and doing it. Now he has to learn how to link libraries to use C++.

"QB is pretty good, but it does kind of promote the use of some not so good coding styles (goto)."

There''s that dead horse argument again.

I''ve yet to use a goto in C++ even after I used BASIC for 8 years. I never even thought to look for it. New language, new way of doing things. I guess it really depends on your mindset. I wouldn''t be surprised that those stuck on syntax and hence insisting on the use of a language with a C type syntax would have that problem of QB causing them to try to use GOTOs and other BASIC syntax in C or C++. I didn''t even know there was a GOTO in C until is was brought up on these boards years ago.

If you look at programming from a standpoint of concepts QB won''t do anything but teach you how to make a computer do what you want. The knowledge of concepts over syntax will allow you to pick up new languages quickly.

And as I said earlier, I didn''t even blink moving from QB to C++/DirectX. I knew all the concepts needed to start making games right away.

Ben


IcarusIndie.com [ The Rabbit Hole | The Labyrinth | DevZone | Gang Wars | The Wall | Hosting | Dot Com | GameShot ]

Saying "look, c++ can't do this without extra libraries but QB can" is idioitic. C++ can do many, many things QB can't do(Everything OO), and some compilers can do just as well without any extra libraries. Borland's old C++ compiler (before they moved to making C++ Builder) had many text functions. It let you change colors, move the cursor to arbitrary locations, print almost any character(exceptions were 7(bel),9(tab),10 and 13(cr and lf) iirc - the basic control characters), etc. All that had to be done is to included the proper headers. It also had a nice windows-based IDE which would be a little more familiar to a child that has used windows and not dos. It allowed the common key-combos like control-c being copy which QB does not. Of course, the key combos in QB (control-insert for copy, shift-insert for paste, and shift-delete for cut) still work in windows, so if he gets used to those its not a problem.

Also, QB doesn't teach concepts over syntax. No real language does as far as I know. That is why I suggested that some form of psuedocode be taught first.

[edited by - Extrarius on August 22, 2002 1:28:31 PM]

I hate Flash.

Oh god, the language debate continues...

I say to each his (or hers) own, and let me get on with my game in peace

quote: Original post by KalvinB
What part of "QB can be downloaded here" costs daddy anything? What part of "C++ can be downloaded here" costs daddy anything?

Time.

quote: Original post by KalvinB
Apparently in your attemtp to be argumentative you''ve failed to actually read the part of the thread where I pointed out you can get a number of C++ compilers and QB (as well as a number of other languages) for *FREE* at my site in the DevZone.

Free as in beer still costs time.

quote: Original post by KalvinB
You''re just being argumentative and yet have nothing intelligent to offer to the discussion. Java-script has already been suggested.

Um, yeah, I''m being argumentative, that''s why I started off by bashing languages I didn''t deem "fit"...

At this point in the thread, I doubt "daddy" is still paying attention anyway.

Thanks to everyone for their input, albeit rather interesting input at times. Anyway I have the info I was looking for, didn''t mean to start a code war or anything. Again thanks for the help. Lots of ideas out there.

"Time."

Oh no! Daddy has to spend time with his kid. I sure you had a point in their somewhere.

"Also, QB doesn't teach concepts over syntax."

Didn't say it did. The person has to learn concepts over syntax. I get the impression that the "it's gotta have a C syntax" fanatics who suggest horrible languages for learning game programming just because it has a C syntax have difficulty doing that.

Syntax (like OO) doesn't matter. What matters is simplicity and concepts. QB is the best language for learning concepts when just starting. You can't get a lower learning curve for the number of concepts you can learn. You can even do 3D in QB which I did for a bit.

Suggesting languages like Java-script and batch files makes it apparent you're not considering what can be done with those languages but the coding style which apparently you're having a great deal comprehending is meaningless at this point. QB offers more concepts than any other simple language.

And you can't code without pseudo code whether you write it down or not so it's pretty redundant to say you have to start with it.

Ben


IcarusIndie.com [ The Rabbit Hole | The Labyrinth | DevZone | Gang Wars | The Wall | Hosting | Dot Com | GameShot ]

[edited by - KalvinB on August 22, 2002 8:01:02 PM]