Ultimate server design:

16 Itaniums (fastest speed) (it''s possible)
4Gigs of RAM on each motherboard
100 Petabyte hard drive (made up of linked hard-drives)
***Buy an ISP or direct connection to a central server!*** (THERE!)

"Because you apparently know everything"

Never said that and never acted like it. Apparently your ego is getting the better of you and making you see things.

"That further adds to my theory that you don't have a lot of experience because you don't seem to know the difference and can't adequately defend an argument."

Let's see. EU cost vs Dev Cost...that's an accurate comparison but running a multi part web-server vs a multi part game server isn't. You really have to work on your analogies. Very few people can administer a web-server and keep it running full time. If you weren't so busy trying to be a dick you would know that, and know that I know the difference between my server computer and my server software. Logically, restarting your entire game world is going to take a lot longer than restarting just an AI server.

"How much processing power does the NPC Server average? What's its utilization on average and how many of those NPC's does it typically assume control of at any given time? I'm sure that you have it optimized so that if nobody is anywhere near an NPC so it doesn't require interaction, then it won't waste processing power on it."

It takes 100% CPU constantly because whether you're watching them or not they've got things to do. Every NPC I log in on an NPC client is constantly under control by that client. It's a dedicated server. The point is to maximize the potential. I don't need to worry about CPU cycles. If you wanted some retarded "just stand there and look pretty" NPCs then you might as well put it with the main server.

"I'm sure that you have it..."

I'm sure you're such a genius so that you know if I did it the "right way" it would be "your way." Well, guess what, you need to get off that high horse of yours and come to the terms that your way sucks and isn't a good way to do things on line. Your way is based off the single player model which is severely cramping the full potention of on line games. Go ahead, put the AI with the server. Limit the CPU cycles you can use to make interesting characters.

Ben


IcarusIndie.com [ The Rabbit Hole | The Labyrinth | DevZone | Gang Wars | The Wall | Hosting | Dot Com ]

[edited by - KalvinB on July 26, 2002 4:18:11 PM]

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Original post by KalvinB
"Because you apparently know everything"

Never said that and never acted like it. Apparently your ego is getting the better of you and making you see things.

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You''ve got to be kidding me? Look at your posts. Not once have you said that you could be wrong or you''ve never tried it some way or that you don''t know something.

quote:

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Let''s see. EU cost vs Dev Cost...that''s an accurate comparison but running a multi part web-server vs a multi part game server isn''t. You really have to work on your analogies.

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What analogy? I never made any analogy like that?

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If you weren''t so busy trying to be a dick you would know that, and know that I know the difference between my server computer and my server software.

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Ah yes. Back to insulting people, which is something you said you weren''t doing.

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Logically, restarting your entire game world is going to take a lot longer than restarting just an AI server.

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And not once did I ever say otherwise, did I? I was asking you to explain because I didn''t think you knew what you were talking about.

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If you wanted some retarded "just stand there and look pretty" NPCs then you might as well put it with the main server.

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I don''t think that''s necessarily the case, but it depends on the scenario. I would agree with that to an extent, but to cut down on inter-server communication, you could have the AI server interact directly with the players'' connections. It would free up CPU time in the main server.

quote:

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I''m sure you''re such a genius so that you know if I did it the "right way" it would be "your way." Well, guess what, you need to get off that high horse of yours and come to the terms that your way sucks and isn''t a good way to do things on line. Your way is based off the single player model which is severely cramping the full potention of on line games. Go ahead, put the AI with the server. Limit the CPU cycles you can use to make interesting characters.

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Do you even read or think about other peoples'' posts or do you just blindly attack them? I specifically stated that I don''t know everything. I never said mine was the right way. To be technical, not once did I ever say that it *should* be done a certain way at all! I never said that the AI should be put in the main game loop and I didn''t say that it shouldn''t. I said it depended on the situation. If you weren''t so bent on attacking everyone who had an idea that was different from your own, you''d have seen that. I completely agree that putting the main AI with the game server in a MMORPG is going to waste CPU cycles and limit the ability to use interesting characters. I never said any differently. I merely asked you to explain your position, which, by the way, you still haven''t adequately done.

But, I guess you knew that too. I give up. I don''t think there''s any chance to have a rational conversation or debate with you about any of this. You''re simply too bent on the idea that nobody else here has a valid contribution to make to the discussion, no matter whether they agree with you, whether they don''t, or whether they didn''t actually even state an opinion and merely asked you to explain your position a bit better. They''re all wrong unless they phrased it exactly as you did.

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Looking for an honest video game publisher? Visit www.gamethoughts.com

"Not once have you said that you could be wrong or you''ve never tried it some way or that you don''t know something."

Do I need a disclaimer? So since I''m not saying I don''t know everything I must think I do. There''s a logical conclusion for you.

"Ah yes. Back to insulting people, which is something you said you weren''t doing."

You accuse me of thinking I know everything, go on and on about credentials, and claim your sister could run a web-server and I point out you''re a dick. Fair trade.

"I was asking you to explain because I didn''t think you knew what you were talking about."

Of course you didn''t. You''re a dick like that. Did you need me to write you a book explaining in painstaking detail that restarting a portion of a server is faster than restarting the entire server? Was my example of restarting Apache vs the entire computer too complciated for you?

"I specifically stated that I don''t know everything."

And yet you act like you do know everything. You even went so far as to "guess" how my NPC server was set up despite my ENTIRE ARGUMENT from page 1 stating it was a dedicated system. What part of "dedicated system" led you to believe that it would run anything like you guessed it would? Obviously you''re not paying attention.

Ben


IcarusIndie.com [ The Rabbit Hole | The Labyrinth | DevZone | Gang Wars | The Wall | Hosting | Dot Com ]

Multiple OC12...i was thinking multiple OC48''s


Now that would be nice.....and i was thinking of 60 gb''s of ram for each motherboard along with 16 procesors (sp) for each motherboard.

"You''re simply too bent on the idea that nobody else here has a valid contribution to make to the discussion"

Typical dick. I''m objecting to you personally. My telling you you''re an idiot and objecting to your idiotic statements has nothing to do with how I view anyone else here.

You''re too full of yourself. You really should get over it.

Ben


IcarusIndie.com [ The Rabbit Hole | The Labyrinth | DevZone | Gang Wars | The Wall | Hosting | Dot Com ]

Jesus people.. What the HELL is wrong here? Does anyone see the topic at the top of this page? I could swear it said "AI Server for MMO system?" not "Flame each other to death!"

KalvinB is a great programmer I think, and his ideas are orginal. It seems most people are scared of that so they flame him over it.

So lets just drop the shit shall we?

Regards,
Nate

I retested my NPC client using the 100Mbit LAN. 750Mhz Duron running the NPCS, 1000Mhz Duron running the server. Logging in at a rate of 20 NPCs per second isn''t a problem. It could probably go faster.

As for speed of processing them, it takes well under 1 second to run through 750 NPCs just walking around the game world. The big slow down before was the 10Mbit LAN. Currently they can wonder around (default), chat (using the game encyclopedia), barter, attack (in defense only) and issue missions.

Another reason to use seperate AI/NPC servers is to allow a variety of types of NPC servers. One I intend to do is a CinemaBot where you can actually script NPCs to act out scenes giving the game world a great deal of life. And also an AttackBot that would handle the NPCs that are out to get people.

By keeping the various types of bots seperate it''s easier to do self checking rather than bugging the server to see if NPC X is at the right spot or if the script needs to be altered to account for any unexpected delays so you don''t end up having one NPC start a conversation before the other character gets there.

Ben


IcarusIndie.com [ The Rabbit Hole | The Labyrinth | DevZone | Gang Wars | The Wall | Hosting | Dot Com ]

quote:

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Original post by KalvinB
Are you lonely Krez? Did your mommy not give you enough attention today?
Or do you just like following me around like a lost puppy?

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heh heh, you are such an angry guy... does it offend you that i read through all of the forums that interest me? would you like me to ask you from now on which threads i am allowed to read?
...
anyways, no reason to waste even more time and bandwidth telling you how wrong you are... you''ll just deny it and then call me some names again.
oh, but:

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I''m sure everyone here appreciates your childish little rant.

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hypocrite... heh heh heh, i think instead of flaming you i''ll just laugh at you from now on...

I think everyone needs to have a piece of stfu and consider if they really have any function here at all or if its time for them to go somewhere else.