I don't have access to Gamasutra ( I understand its a form of subscription services ) I didnt know about tuts on Nvidia's site and more tuts on the same subject is always good anyway. So I bet most poeple will not have seen those tuts you talk about when they go to NeHe's site.

EDIT : I just checked the Nvidia site, and apart from being GPU specific the tuts are also aimed at higher-end card optimizations and all. I don't care for a tut written for a GeForce 3 card only, I don't have one. If he wants to write general tuts I would greatly appreciate it.

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Further tutorials on this are not needed.

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Maybe for you but not for others, speak for yourself.

WHO DO THEY
THINK THEY'RE
FOOLING : YOU ?




[edited by - bleakcabal on July 2, 2002 6:29:39 PM]

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Original post by Bleakcabal
I don''t have access to Gamasutra ( I understand its a form of subscription services )

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Nope, just register on the site, and you''ll have access.

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more tuts on the same subject is always good anyway.

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Why? Whats the point? You''d simply be repeating yourself.

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I just checked the Nvidia site, and apart from being GPU specific the tuts are also aimed at higher-end card optimizations and all. I don''t care for a tut written for a GeForce 3 card only, I don''t have one. If he wants to write general tuts I would greatly appreciate it.

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What do you expect? You don''t seem to understand that to do advanced stuff in opengl, you need to use vendor specific extensions alot of the time, for instance: NV_vertex_program and NV_register_combiners for nVidia ( both supported on GF2 ), or EXT_vertex_shader and ATI_fragment shader for ATI cards.
Until OpenGL 2.0 comes out, you''re stuck with it. ( Yes, there is the ARB_dot3 extension too, but that can only do diffuse bump mapping ).

You can do per-pixel lighting and full specular/diffuse bump mapping on a GF2 at realtime speeds ( ~10-20 FPS for a very small scene ), so it''s enough to practice on for when you do get a more powerful card. Oh, further articles on bump mapping ( well, DOT3 bump mapping anyway ) are not needed. There is a paper called "A Practicle and Robust Bump Mapping Technique for Todays GPU''s" which details bump mapping on GF2 class cards. It''s on the nVidia developers site, and is for the most part general ( although the implementation that is used is not ). This site is also very good for learning bump-mapping, and extends what is said in the paper I just mentioned. This is all anyone needs to be able to do it. What more do you want? If you don''t understand it, then unfortunately, it''s too advanced for you at this current time, so swat up a bit more and tackle it later.

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So I bet most poeple will not have seen those tuts you talk about when they go to NeHe''s site.

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So I bet most people are lazy when they go to NeHe''s site, as they haven''t looked around for other resources.

Death of one is a tragedy, death of a million is just a statistic.

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You don't seem to understand that to do advanced stuff in opengl, you need to use vendor specific extensions alot of the time, for instance: NV_vertex_program and NV_register_combiners for nVidia ( both supported on GF2 ), or EXT_vertex_shader and ATI_fragment shader for ATI cards.

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No I don't because unlike you I wasn't born knowing everything and being right all the time. When there is something I don't know I need to learn it from somewhere : a book, someone else, or say a turorial ...

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more tuts on the same subject is always good anyway.

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Why? Whats the point? You'd simply be repeating yourself.

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Not if it's written by a different persons. I have often found tutorials I could'nt understand, then looked for other tutorials on the same subjects and understood those. And most of the time tutorials written by big companies are the ones I don't understand ( those like Nvidia ) and tutorials on site like NeHe are those I understand. So it's not pointless. Maybe your a better programmer than me, I don't doubt it, fine. Maybe you understand any tutorials you see on the first look, but not me, I like to have more info on subjects. Why are you so obstinate on preventing poeple from writing tuts and other poeple from reading them ? We can do what we want. If your not concerned by this because you think it's pointless, when the topic starter asked for subjects to cover don't blast everyone on the thread, just find another thread which can stimulate your superior intellect, judgement and maturity.

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So I bet most people are lazy when they go to NeHe's site, as they haven't looked around for other resources.

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Yeah that makes sense, most poeple are lazy when they go to Nvidia site ! That has been reached by the same bogus reasoning as your affirmation. And poeple are lazy when they read tuts they should have spent the time to learn it on their own. Poeple are lazy when they use a library such as DevIL, poeple are lazy when they make a computer program to do something for them quicker.


WHO DO THEY
THINK THEY'RE
FOOLING : YOU ?




[edited by - bleakcabal on July 3, 2002 9:18:46 AM]

[edited by - bleakcabal on July 3, 2002 9:26:54 AM]

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Original post by Bleakcabal
Not if it''s written by a different persons. I have often found tutorials I could''nt understand, then looked for other tutorials on the same subjects and understood those. And most of the time tutorials written by big companies are the ones I don''t understand ( those like Nvidia ) and tutorials on site like NeHe are those I understand. So it''s not pointless. Maybe your a better programmer than me, I don''t doubt it, fine. Maybe you understand any tutorials you see on the first look, but not me, I like to have more info on subjects. Why are you so obstinate on preventing poeple from writing tuts and other poeple from reading them ? We can do what we want. If your not concerned by this because you think it''s pointless, when the topic starter asked for subjects to cover don''t blast everyone on the thread, just find another thread which can stimulate your superior intellect, judgement and maturity.

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I''m not saying don''t write yet another bump mapping tutorial or whatever, but try to do ones that haven''t been done before, or ones that are not so widely presented.

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Yeah that makes sense, most poeple are lazy when they go to Nvidia site ! That has been reached by the same bogus reasoning as your affirmation. And poeple are lazy when they read tuts they should have spent the time to learn it on their own. Poeple are lazy when they use a library such as DevIL, poeple are lazy when they make a computer program to do something for them quicker.

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You said yourself, people who goto Nehe probably wouldn''t have looked around for other sites. I call that lazyness. Your logic is flawed, and your reasoning behind my so-called "Bogus" reasoning is just stupid. I wouldn''t call people lazy for reading tuts, they are an integral learning process, and are very useful. That isn''t lazy. Libraries are also not lazy, where the hell are you getting all of this?

I think you are taking what I''m saying way much too personally. Anyway, I''m out of time, I g2g.

Death of one is a tragedy, death of a million is just a statistic.

You don't seem to understand what I've said, so I'll explain it more "clearly" for you.

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So I bet most people are lazy when they go to NeHe's site, as they haven't looked around for other resources.

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I call that lazyness. Your logic is flawed, and your reasoning behind my so-called "Bogus" reasoning is just stupid.

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I myself haven't searched for tuts on water because right now, Im busy programming other things. I didn't even think of searching for them because I was busy with other things. But I often go to NeHe's site because this is where I get most of my tuts on OGL. Now suppose I go there and see a tut on water or another subject, one I might not even know exist ( so I could'nt have searched for it ) and decide to investigate it out of curiosity. I learn from this tut and now this tutorial has been useful, this is an "illustration" of my point which I stated here :

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So I bet most poeple will not have seen those tuts you talk about when they go to NeHe's site.

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Now you took this phrase ( written by me a single person )and generalized by saying that

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most people are lazy when they go to NeHe's site

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Why is it my previous illustration an exemple that prove that most poeple who visit NeHe's site are lazy ? Do I represent most poeple on NeHe's site ( maybe yes, maybe no, probably not ). Do the fact I didn't know about

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You don't seem to understand that to do advanced stuff in opengl, you need to use vendor specific extensions alot of the time, for instance: NV_vertex_program and NV_register_combiners for nVidia ( both supported on GF2 ), or EXT_vertex_shader and ATI_fragment shader for ATI cards.
Until OpenGL 2.0 comes out, you're stuck with it. ( Yes, there is the ARB_dot3 extension too, but that can only do diffuse bump mapping ).

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doesn't make me lazy. And no I don't understand the advanced stuff in OGL, I don't try to hide it. I bet at sometime in your life you to didnt understand the advanced features in OGL. Now because of this post I have guidelines of where to searched when I have finished programming some of the things I am currently doing, but if I haven't read this post I would have been in the dark. And by going on NeHe's site I could have learned these things if these tuts were on the site, I could have looked at the tuts and then maybe search the net for more tuts on the same subject.

Now secondly. Because I state your logic is bogus and then do some sarcams and amplification afterwards, this does not mean you have to take this as the explication to why I personnally found that your logic was bogus, I tought it was clear. I should have expressed myself better.

Anyway, you can say what you want and try as hard as you want ( for what purpose I don't know ) Im sure it won't stop llvllatrix from writing these tuts and it won't stop poeple happening on NeHe's site to look at them and wonder : "What is subject XYZ I have never heard of it, I think i'll read this tuts and learn more about it".

And if you still don't understand my point well I guess there's nothing I can do for you.

WHO DO THEY
THINK THEY'RE
FOOLING : YOU ?




[edited by - bleakcabal on July 3, 2002 11:27:32 AM]

Hmmm, I know what you''re getting now. Yes, having a resource in one place that you can reference is a good idea, but it is rather idealistic. I think having links to more detailed references on NeHe for instance would be a good idea, because it would educate people into what some things are, and give links to where you would be able to find out more. It''s writing whole new articles on subjects that have been covered many times all ready that I think is a bit pointless. I don''t want matrix not to write tutorials, if he does, I''ll still have a look, see if there is anything that I can learn from them, but personally I think that researching and then writing a tutorial on a largely unknown or perhaps less documented idea would be better.

Anyway, we could go all day and not convince each other. Until next time


Death of one is a tragedy, death of a million is just a statistic.

And I think that close that !


WHO DO THEY
THINK THEY''RE
FOOLING : YOU ?

i have a great console made for our project, and since i''m planning to someday pay back to NeHe, i might write a tut on how to do it.

---
shurcool
my project

that would be great

WHO DO THEY
THINK THEY''RE
FOOLING : YOU ?

quote:

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Original post by python_regious

I''m not saying don''t write yet another bump mapping tutorial or whatever, but try to do ones that haven''t been done before, or ones that are not so widely presented.

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I find that when I want to learn about a subject, reading just one tutorial is not enough. Sometimes after reading an article or tutorial there is still a little confusion. By reading a couple different tutorials on the subject it clears this confusion up. It really helps to see other people''s views on it, besides just one person (the writer of the tutorial).