I see a lot of references to music on here, some of which I consider 'smart' or 'complicated' music (the kind that musicians appreciate). I have also read/heard that musicians make good programmers and vice versa. I was wondering how many of you that program are also musicians (NOTE: because you know three chords or can 'rap' does not mean you are a musician. I am referring to serious musicians. Piano, classical guitar, some metal, almost any jazz, classical violin, etc.) I have played a variety of instruments and composed in a variety of different styles ranging from 'death metal' to classical guitar. I think that having a good grasp on musical theory and composition is in a lot of ways very similar to designing and coding a program. I also think the artistic/creative part of composition is similar to the creative flow of game creation (yes it IS art, and it DOES requires creativity) as well. Anyone else out there that can comment on that? Edited by - DarthSpanky on 3/10/00 9:25:57 AM

Interesting that you seem to dictate what is music and what is not.

Anyhow, I played the saxophone for many years, but ended up running into a brick wall once I got to the point of having to improvise music.

I can''t hear how well what i''m playing sounds when i''m playing it. my head resonates or something. its horrible. Also, music theory wasn''t overly interesting to me, so I couldn''t get myself to study it.

Guess that means I''m not really a musician. but i''m a programmer! =)




*oof*

I was making no attempt to dictate was music is or is not. I was simply attempting to make a distinction betweeen crap, and something that takes talent and a brain to compose or perform (both still being considered music). I believe there is a difference between a musician (notice the i-a-n), and somene that plays an instrument. Anyone with two hands can learn 3 chords if their IQ is at least close to that of a chicken or turtle (not a musician), but it takes a little more to compose or play a Bach piece (musician).

Edited by - DarthSpanky on 3/10/00 12:06:50 PM

Well, I have 10 years of piano and music theory lessons under my belt. I play piano, keyboard, violin, trumpet, baritone, classical guitar, electric guitar, and even accordian, to varying degrees of competence. Somewhere my parents have a trunk full of awards from my music competitions... I made my on-stage singing debut at the age of 3. My grandmother is still upset that I didn''t "follow my true calling and become a concert pianist".
That aside, programming is a lot more fun. I do think that programming and music are very similar, because both at their core require a grasp of the larger picture of what''s happening and the flow of the subject, and both are in some way based on mathematics, logic, and patterns. Musical talent isn''t really necessary for being a good programmer though, because I know a lot of good programmers who are totally tone deaf. It does feel about the same mentally when I''m "in the zone" composing or "in the zone" coding.

-fel

Playing music hits a realm that coding doesn''t though.

When improvising music, you can be playing with a theme, and experimentation is so much less costly.

Programming is a lot more structured than free playing, not in a bad way, just happens to be the way it is.

I learned to play music by doing it, never really took much in the way of lessens, I taught myself theory, but I used theory as a tool to understand what I created, not to dictate what I create. Same with programming, use theoritical concepts to help you understand, not drive the direction. Very important. But by teaching myself, both in programming, and music, I avoided some of the problems of that structure can impose on you. Mainly, being stuck in a box, or requiring doing things a certain way because that''s the way I was told to do it.

Of course, there are disadvantages to this, mainly in efficiency and technique. I think the best way to learn (programming or music), is to start on your own, until you develop the starting of your own style, than refine your style with different techniques that are available. That way you can accept ideas that work with your style, and disregard others that don''t necessarily work with it.

But like I said, I think music is more friendly to free improvisation, than programming, of course, recording music, now we are starting to get closer to programming. You need to layer your tracks properly, and putting to much effects on one track, can make the entire song sound washy....

You could of course, apply these comparisons to Sculpture, painting, dance, etc... creativity is creativity in any form.

I play keyboard. i''ve been playing for about 7 years now. i have two keyboards (Roland XP-80 and an Alesis QS6.1) and both are suited to sequencing, which i have been getting into lately. sequencing music is more like programing to me, its very structured and has to be well though-out to produce a good result. I still prefer playing improv and jamming with my friends to sitting in front of a computer moving notes around ;-)


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So DarthSpanky do you think rap isn''t music? Or do you think it''s so rubbish it shouldn''t be considered music? What makes you able to say what is and what isn''t "serious" music not liking something doesn''t mean you have to say it''s not music.