quote: Original post by Yann L
Very good, David !

0 tolerance for trolls, that''s the way it should be handled. Lots of newbies get discouraged and afraid of posting ''easy'' questions, in fear of being flamed. That shouldn''t happen in the beginner forum.

/ Yann

Whatever. The way I see it there seems to be zero tolerance for harsh criticism (not the same thing as flaming in case you ask), and too much tolerance for stupid posts.

The only post I''ve seen muted so far, one of SabreMan''s in the Copy Constructor thread, was not out of line at all in my mind. When the original poster was asked why he was writing a string class he said:

quote: (and to tell you the truth, the only reason I''m making [my own string class] is because I don''t like underscores-style used by the various (sic) STD functions =-P )

I don''t care what any moderator says, that''s a pretty stupid fucking reason. And that''s what SabreMan was pointing out. Nothing wrong with that.

It might be more productive to say that if the person wants to customize their own way for their own comfort, and if it works, then no problem.

But there will be disconnects when the person tries to interface with others that have used the standard, that could ultimately make things difficult for the person. To that end, they should at least be warned.

Other than that, programming according to one's own tastes has no right or wrong to it. I wouldn't call the person's reasoning stupid. The way I see it, there's nothing wrong with not liking the way things are and changing them to what you desire, except for my observation above.

If he never plans to work with others on a program, then there is no problem with it.

One of my co-workers, unknown to the rest of us, actually rewrote some of the .h files because he didn't like the way certain things were laid out. Now, THAT, I would call stupid. He wasn't thinking at all about how others would need to work on his code after he moved on. It was a real mess. Hobbyists can do what they want, and prepare themselves better for a workplace if that's what they are planning on, but if you're already in a workplace, you absolutely need to follow a standard.

[edited by - Waverider on May 15, 2002 10:16:27 AM]

[edited by - Waverider on May 15, 2002 10:19:19 AM]

Dobbs

Perhaps you have misunderstood the purpose of the For Beginners forum. It is the correct place for people to make "stupid posts" as you call them, and for kind, upstanding members of the GDNet community to help answer them. If your elitist attitude makes you take offense to people asking newbie questions, I suggest you go to another forum.

quote: Original post by Dobbs
The way I see it there seems to be zero tolerance for harsh criticism

Obviously you didn't read that thread. After editing his original post (I have already explained that I have no problem with the information he was presenting, just the derogatory manner he was doing it), I did not touch any of his critisms, despite the fact that he did not listen to me when I asked him to use another thread rather than hijacking the current one.

quote: Original post by Dobbs
The only post I've seen muted so far, one of SabreMan's in the Copy Constructor thread, was not out of line at all in my mind.

That's because you didn't see the muted post. The rest of SabreMan's replies in that thread where well written and fell completely within the code of polite conduct suitable for this forum.

quote: Original post by Dobbs
--Responding to quote by Yann L---
Whatever.
--Later--
I don't care what any moderator says, that's a pretty stupid fucking reason.

Obviously you lack the level of maturity required to give respect to your fellow members of the GDNet community, especially the moderators who give up time in their own lifes to make this a better place. While we all don't agree with people at one time or another, some of us try to still treat them with the level of respect we would expect to recieve in return. Dismissing other peoples ideas off hand and stooping to vulgarity when you disagree with them is no way to get anyone to listen to you.

[edited by - michalson on May 15, 2002 10:28:54 AM]

If he doesn''t like the stl naming style then I can think of easier ways to get around it than rewriting std::string. Macros? Even if they are evil.

#define MyString std::string#define toCString c_strMyString s;s.toCString(); 

Voila. It''s ugly and stupid, just like writing your own string class, and it requires less work.

Ah just ignore me. I''m in a bad mood today.

Glad to hear this is just a bad mood rather than your regular posting style. Hopefully we can have a more productive discussion some day soon.

quote: Original post by Dobbs
I don''t care what any moderator says, that''s a pretty stupid fucking reason.

Is that any reason to respond to the poster with a negative attitude? Michalson''s reason for muting SabreMan''s post was because of the way SabreMan''s response sounded, not because he disagreed with the poster''s reasoning.

I didn''t see his original post before it was deleted, so I can''t comment on it. I find SabreMan''s posts usually very informative, but I think people might mistake the tone of his posts sometimes.

im glad to see someone finally stepping up to the plate
here and taking care of some of the abuse that''s
run rampant over the last few months.
most of the comments i''ve seen posted in these
forums are essentially blatant displays of arrogance.
it''s sad really, to think of how many programming
newbies have probably been shunned already.

-eldee
;another space monkey;
[ Forced Evolution Studios ]

agreed to the goodness of heavy moderation in this forum. though it seems that recently more and more non-moderator type people have been coming to the rescue of noobs in this forum.

my personal favorite motivator for at least trying to be more nice than not is that i'm looking to start working in the gaming industry. a lot of people on this board are in the gaming industry. the industry is a relatively small and close-knit community and everything rides on reputation.

If you are consistently a prick to everyone the following becomes a likely scenario: "oh, you're . when i was starting our you constantly flamed me. sorry we don't actually have any positions open on our team."

karma's a bitch in small circles of people.

-me

[edited by - Palidine on May 15, 2002 1:00:37 PM]

First, here here. I agree with you Michalson. I sometimes read some of the replies posts in here and am at a loss at the attitude that people send the way of the newbie. I say, there are over 30 forums here and if you like attacking people''s way of thinking, then go to one of the others. There are plenty of stupid posts out there in the other forums that can be flamed. At least when people came into the For Beginners forum, they at least took a look and decided they were too new to the board to go to the other ones yet. That should be deserving of some respect right there. They know their new and they know they need to learn, but saying that''s f***ing stupid does not promote learning. You could say: "Well, I don''t think that is a good reason for doing it, but if I were to do, here''s how".

You can teach people the rules, without jumping down their throats. The only time I would agree with a flame in here is if the same user posts the same question multiple times and just doesn''t seem to be reading the responses.

Anayway, that''s my $0.02 ($0.04US)

---
Make it work.
Make it fast.

"Commmmpuuuuterrrr.." --Scotty Star Trek IV:The Voyage Home

quote: Original post by Michalson
Perhaps you have misunderstood the purpose of the For Beginners forum. It is the correct place for people to make "stupid posts" as you call them, and for kind, upstanding members of the GDNet community to help answer them.

And it is also the place to ensure newbies are provided with quality information. If you wish to make the Beginner''s forum a playpen for newbies, too much moderation might get you exactly that. But I think you actually want it to be a suitable forum for newbies and more experienced people to mix. Weighing heavily in favour of one area of the community does nothing to strike a balance.

quote:
I did not touch any of his critisms, despite the fact that he did not listen to me when I asked him to use another thread rather than hijacking the current one.

That was because you suggested I''d called the OP "stupid". I hadn''t - I said he was doing something stupid, which is completely different. If you are going to actively moderate this forum, then I hope you can see the distinction.

quote:
especially the moderators who give up time in their own lifes to make this a better place

The moderators are not the only people who give up their own time to contribute here. If the newbies are to get answers, then the forum needs people who can provide them. Personally speaking, I am just as offended by profound stupidity as by swearing and flaming. If I feel that I am taking time out of my day to provide information to someone who is going to disrespect my contribution, or is going to demonstrate profound stupidity, then I will be able to find more worthwhile things to do.

If you go back and read the thread in question, you will see that the OP is not really a beginner, and he made a fairly bold assertion. That assertion was rather stupid. I''m all for cutting out some of the really bad posts that have been made here, but please don''t go too far.

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