As a few people have already become aware that I''m the new moderator for the For Beginners forum, and most of you are aware of the recent discussions regarding behavoir on this forum (The first started by Myopic Rhino here, and the resulting community discussion here) and so are aware of the problems regarding abuse to beginners. Since it looks like it will be my responsiblity to make sure this problem is resolved I''d like to outline my moderation policy for this forum, in the hopes that it will avoid confusion and confrontation when parts of it are practiced.

quote: Original post by Myopic Rhino The For Beginners forum was created as a place where people new to the site, new to game development, and new to programming in general could come and ask questions without fear of being flamed or made fun of for asking stupid, newbie questions.

This forum is meant to be a haven for people with questions to ask, no matter how simple or obvious the answers may seem to the more experienced crowd. To this end I will be enforcing conduct on this forum much more tightly than others.

quote: Original post by Promit I think it would be good if in some forums moderators took a very harsh line on bad behavior. Especially in Lounge and For Beginners. People flame newbies? Whether or not the flames are founded, delete the post outright. Or the topic, or whatever. We don''t need people blasting the newbies with flames.

While I don''t intend to be deleting posts left, right and center I will be muting inappropriate and unconstructive parts of posts on occasion. Those who have been muted can return and edit their post so that it better reflects the helpful nature they wish to show in the beginners forum. (This does not apply to AP posts, if I see AP''s flaming they''re post is dead)

quote: Original post by catfoodgood If you don''t have something nice to say, don''t say anything.

When I speak about inappropriate posts I am refering to anything that is not helping answer the posters question. This includes but is not limited to: * Attacking/Flaming/Belittling the posters question. If you feel the posters question or their way of asking it is ''lame'' or ''too simple'' keep it to yourself. If you are unsure of your tone check the language of your post. If you find you''re using words like "stupid" (or any general synonyms for it such as "moron", "idiot", or "retard") you should seriously consider changing your response or not posting at all. * Attacking/Flaming the posters attitude.

quote: Original post by Palidine One of the most common and understandable assumptions that a lot of newbies make is that newsboards are a place where experts come to give answers to people who don''t know what is going on. Your job as someone who posts to the For Beginners forum, or responds to posts by newbies in other forums, is to EDUCATE noobs on the PURPOSE of these boards. It''s called being a good and supportive community instead of being an elitist assholic community.

Nuff said. * STFW, RTFM: While this response might be ok in other forums, this is the Beginners forum, and as such the poster may not have those skills yet, let alone know what these acronyms mean. If your response is STFW then provide the search terms you think should be used, the search engine, and some examples of the links you found with them instead. * vs. wars: If someone (and there will always be someone), asks a question like "Which api/language is better, X or Y", please do your best to only give your answer to the question, not argue with other people in the thread that your X is better than their Y. While that kind of discussion can be good when everyone keeps their cool, it has no place in this forum, where it only leads to confusion and dispair for the original poster. * Swearing. As with all the forums any foul language is frowned upon. Given that this is a spot for people new to the site to visit I would ask you try and keep your language clean so as not to scare them away (some people can be very sensitive, be considerate).

quote: Original post by TheGodfather Bottom Line is be nice to the newbies. One day we will be your peers.

I would encourage anyone who has any opinions (good or bad) concerning my stance to please state them here, rather then highjacking another thread in this forum. This thread will be treated in the same manner a lounge thread would be, that is: Everyone is free to speak their mind about this. Everyones opinon on the subject has a right to be heard, even if I/others might find it non-constructive. The only moderation on this thread will be for trolling or excessive foul language (of course the staff could always override that and delete something if they feel it is inappropriate, but the point is I want this to be a free discussion rather than me laying down the law and telling you tuff luck about it).

Hello.

_____________________________
Beer.
Rocks.

It''s great that the moderators have been getting more involved lately.

I applaud you! It already seems like the forum is clean Strict control of this forum to prevent the trollers/flammers from interrupting the new user''s experience is the best solution, I agree with you 100%.

"I am governed by none other than the Laws of the Universe."

good

1. Good.
2. We should keep this thread alive for a while, I think.

k 

quote: Original post by Michalson
I will be enforcing conduct on this forum much more tightly than others.

May I suggest you do not become too over-enthusiastic in your moderation of this forum. Aiming to eliminate senseless flaming and to improve the signal-to-noise ratio is an honourable pursuit. However, I think there is a fine dividing line here, and I doubt much good can come of mollycoddling newbies. It is sometimes beneficial to let someone know they are being daft, and my experiences lead me to believe most newbies aren''t as emotionally fragile as you are making out.
 
Also, remember that a beginner''s forum needs more experienced people to work well - do not dilute quality of information by heavily favouring one group over another. If you are perceived to be restricting people''s freedom of expression where it is not clearly flamage, you will drive those people away. If a newbie is doing something stupid, then they should be told so - as long as there is no personal attack made. Pointing out that an idea or statement is daft is not the same thing as calling the person who said it daft. Stupidity begets stupidity. If there is no voice of reason in these forums, then the whole thing will descend into a load of gibbering nonsense, if it''s not there already - the quality of information here is already of a rather low standard.

Surely a moderators role is to facilitate communication between the members of the community? It''s probably fair to say that outright flaming is not good communication and deserves to be suppressed. Beyond that, things are not clear-cut. Heavy moderation *will* drive people out.

quote:
If your response is STFW then provide the search terms you think should be used, the search engine, and some examples of the links you found with them instead.

This is a tricky one. Searching the web makes the assumption that whatever you find on the web is likely to be of good quality and from a sound source. The probability is heavily against that phenomenon. It makes a lot of sense to establish "trusted sources". Any information should be regarded as dubious unless from a trusted source. Even then it should be considered carefully.

quote:
* vs. wars: If someone (and there will always be someone), asks a question like "Which api/language is better, X or Y"

My suggested solution to this is to point out that it is a matter of opinion, and the questioner must form their own. If there are any objective facts that can be stated, then it makes sense to do so, else you''re in religious territory.
 

quote: Original post by TheGodfather
Bottom Line is be nice to the newbies.  One day we will be your peers.

As with most things, there are (at least) two sides to this comment. I certainly recognise that newbies could become my peers, and in fact am particularly interested in educating newcomers to programming. That means I like to make sure newbies are not given misleading or inaccurate information as bad habits are hard to break. It''s not always in everyone''s best interests to "be nice to the newbies", whatever that actually means. Being "nice" is not the same as being helpful.

[ C++ FAQ Lite | ACCU | Boost | Python | Agile Manifesto! ]

All good points SabreMan. Obviously there are times when a question has no response but one that informs them they are flat wrong or are heading in the wrong direction. I only wish to ensure that the poster is given the response it a polite and helpful manner, no matter what that response may be. As I''ve already mentioned to you through email in future I will be working on only removing offensive attitude from messages, rather than cutting out everything (such as valid and meanful responses that might otherwise be hidden under flames).

Thanks to everyone who has voiced their opinion so far.

Very good, David !

0 tolerance for trolls, that''s the way it should be handled. Lots of newbies get discouraged and afraid of posting ''easy'' questions, in fear of being flamed. That shouldn''t happen in the beginner forum.

/ Yann