There has to be a really cool mode of gameplay that nobody has thought of before, but what? Multiplayer is a no, or else that will be a resident evil clone(Yep, they are doing an online one.). First person has been taken (Survivor), same with intellegent enemies (RE 3). I''ve got a game that I really, really want to work on. But it needs something new that will scare the hell out of people. Ideas?

Hmm... I believe there is a quite unique game in this genre on ps2 in fact. It''s called Fatal Frame, and you use a camera to kill your enemies. Basically you walk around in 3rd person, and when you use the camera it changes to first person.

Review here:
http://www.game-revolution.com/games/ps2/adventure/fatal_frame.htm

How about:

There are no monsters. Forget about Alone in the Dark, Silent Hill, Resident Evil xyz, etc. There are no monsters, mutants, zombies, aliens, whatever. My take on survival horror is that it should instill feelings of helplessness and paranoia to be effective. Turning a corner and blasting a zombie with a shotgun isn''t quite the same. Where''s the helplessness? You know who the enemy is, and how to deal with them.

There is a serial killer on the loose, and everyone could be a suspect. At least for the majority of the game, the player never knows who the killer is. There could be many suspicious characters, and perhaps with a little prodding, the player could be led to believe that *they* might be the killer.

Instill a sense of paranoia. The killer *might* be that homeless person hanging out under an awning, that young punk coming out of the music hall, the police officer on the corner. You could take any one of them down, but you might be taking on an innocent, or... maybe not. If they do kill someone without enough proof (or without getting the police involved), then the ramifications should be obvious.

The player would be following a trail of clues (and bodies), both trying to figure out who the killer is, and where they''ll strike next. Leave a feeling of tension that the player might be next, or in danger, but also directly effect others. Build up likeable recurring characters, that the player will later find dead. If the player feels that they might know who the next victim is, then they could try to defend that person, but they won''t know who they''re defending them against. Is that shadowy figure walking through the yard during a power outage the killer, someone just taking a shortcut, or an innocent electrician looking for the fault in the powerline? Let them think they know who''s next, but be wrong.

That would be a new take, for a game at least. Correct me if I''m wrong.

just because you know who the enemey is dont remove the tension. its more about atmosphere and story telling. if the player is not interested in the story or gameplay, then you cant create tension for the player. if they play the game merely to blast the creatures, then they miss the point of the game and remove the tension themselves. re was very effective, espeically when ammo and herbs was low. to create helplessness you need to create a reality the player can relate to. whether its against zombies, or against a mystery killer, if the player''s goal is merely complete the game and kill things, you cant give them tension through story. play doom, no cheating, on the hardest level. you will quickly learn the meaning of helplessness if you waste ammo and health. the problem is the balence of resources compared to the skill of the player. most players quite playing if the game is too hard, thus games are made easier creating less tension. if you have the strongest weapons, then you will feel invincible. now tell me, even if you know who all the enemies are, but wasted all our ammo and have only a knife with which to defend yourself. i think there will be a decent amount of tension. limiting the saves increases tension further.

creating a game like you suggest pmk works well on paper. pratcically speaking, such a game would require a very sophisticated branching story. many players use strategy guides(moronic i know) and walk throughs which removes most tension and surprise story wise. heck, by konwing whats happening later in the game, they can plan ahead and conserve ammo. solving puzzles is a breeze, and gameplay becomes just like all the games you complain about.

why are you looking for a cool "mode" of gameplay that nobody has though of before? you dont need gimmicks to scare ppl, you need a good story, well balanced gameplay (ie ammo.health pickups to enemies), surprises within the game, rooms that can be only partially searched until some item later is aquired (allowing you to hide traps that the player will see on the way back to a place they though was safe).

why do ppl think gimmicks make things better? heck super monkey ball has tons of tension on expert level.

I have to agree and disagree with a_person on his second to last paragraph. I''m not sure that Tohayer is looking for gimmicks as much as approaches or situations that invoke suspense and fear. The thing about many movies and games these days is that what will happen is predictable and therefore not as scary as it once was. I mean when you watch a horror movie and the music gets creepy and the actor/actress opens a door very slowly, we expect something to happen, and something normally does. When it gets this predictable then it loses something.

This isn''t always the case of course, there are exceptions. I think Tohayer is looking for twists that are still unexpected or surprising that haven''t been cloned to death.

At this point I will will turn around and contradict myself in a way by agreeing that story and setting are everything. For example, Mothman Profecies. I haven''t been that scared(literally) since I was 6 or 7. This is that exception I was talking about above. There were several scenes (like the one where he sees his dead wife next to him in bed, or closing the bathroom door with the full length mirror facing the camera) that were totally predictable, but when what was expected happened people actually screamed. It wasn''t violent, it wasn''t gory, but it WAS a GREAT thriller. Balance is everything. NEW hooks help too though.

Resident Evil 1 & 2 nearly but got it right but not quite. Both were desperatly trying to get the feeling offered in the film Dawn of the Dead (the one in the shopping centre). So what am i talking about? That feeling of isolation and helplesness. Heck that film has got so much atmosphere that it doesn''t need scenes to be set in the dark to make em scary, in fact most of that film is set in daylight or brightly lit rooms.

Its all about atmosphere and you get that through setting and story. So if you want my opinion stop trying to come up with totally new ideas cause most of the existing ones are fine and you can just refine em to suite your needs.

I''ve thought about trying to code a survival horror demo for a while now as i feel it would be one of the most interesting and proabably less technical of the 3d genres to code. Let me know anyone who''s interested (prefferbly people over 21 who know how to program)

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Original post by a person
creating a game like you suggest pmk works well on paper. pratcically speaking, such a game would require a very sophisticated branching story.

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It would. Not necessarily a completely insurmountable odd though. Keep it confined to a small area (a small town or something), and it shouldn''t get too out of hand.

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many players use strategy guides(moronic i know) and walk throughs which removes most tension and surprise story wise.

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Easier: Some small random branches might alleviate some of this. Give some different clues based on the branches, and even working off of a walkthrough, the player would still have to pay attention to what was going on even to figure out how to follow the walkthrough.
Harder: Make it even more of a mental chess match. The player starts foiling the killer too often, and the killer could change their tactics.

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heck, by konwing whats happening later in the game, they can plan ahead and conserve ammo. solving puzzles is a breeze, and gameplay becomes just like all the games you complain about.

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Conserve ammo? What I am envisioning is more cerebral, where the player must pull one step ahead of the killer and save as many of their friends/family/acquaintances as possible, as well as surviving themselves. In the end, saving that extra bullet wouldn''t have mattered, but saving the grocer might have. It''s extending the concept of survival beyond the player.

Resident Evil isn't really that scary. Even Alone In The Dark (which was the first "resident evil-style game") is probably more frightening than Resident Evil, just because some of the enemies are swirling lights and intangible monsters that kill you by touching you. Alone In The Dark is old, and has poor graphics, but it's very scary to be chased around by stuff that you don't even know what it is.

I think Silent Hill 1 (Playstation) is probably the scariest survival horror game. Also, System Shock 2 is a very scary game, probably more scary than Resident Evil. Resident Evil really lacks the frightening, oppresive atmosphere of Silent Hill and System Shock 2.

I would say if you want a scary game, it needs great audio and an oppressive atmosphere. System Shock 2 had some of the scariest sounds in a game, where Resident Evil's monsters are very limited in the sound department. Silent Hill's great sound comes in the form of music and background sound effects, like a crying child heard in an empty bathroom.

Silent Hill has some great touches. Many times you are in complete darkness, with only a flashlight. One of the scariest things are the little shadow creatures that live in the shadows and try to get away from your flashlight beam. They don't ever attack you, I don't think... but they make strange chirping noises and believe me, if you play the game at night they will freak you out.

The thing I enjoyed most about Resident Evil series is sometimes you get chased from room to room by a powerful evil badguy who you can't kill. This is always scary, and is a great idea.

If you want another take on Survival Horror, there's always Illbleed for the Dreamcast. I haven't played it, but I hear that you have a fear meter, and if it gets too high, you die of a heart attack or something.

[edited by - Narcus on May 15, 2002 5:36:52 PM]

Story? I don't think so. It's all about the atmosphere.
SOUND! The #1 part of creating a creepy atmosphere, even if it is silence. The reason why most movies do such a horrible job of suspense and surprise is because they make the sounds lead straight to the event. Fast paced, tense music, then it all goes quiet and you know something will jump out.
But this can be fixed, the classic "jump out and hack/slash at character" scene can still be very startling.

Example:
You are walking through a house, looking for the killer. There is no sound. There are no leads, no clues. And while you innocently walk down another hallwa-BAM! You swivel around with your gun to see that a broom just fell out of the closet. Later on when the killer actually does jump out of the closet, it should be loud and follow up with very fast music. Gotta keep the adrenaline pumping as long as possible.
It's the feeling of paranoia, that something can jump out anytime , and not just when the music stops. Not just when you walk through that final door.

Lighting. A scene should be all dark, or, as bright as normal. Movies also do this horribly, the character walks into the dimly lit room and the killer jumps out from behind the door. BAD BAD BAD. Either the whole house should be dark, or it should all be as light as it would normally.
-- Dark scenes create a more moody atmosphere, for obvious reasons.
-- Light scenes create more suspense, everything is normal, it keeps the player guessing.

Consistency. Nothing messes up paranoia more than giving huge hints as to what's going to happen. The unusual room should not be the one with the killer, it should not even exist. All sections of an area should be similar.

Little touches. While I haven't played the game, the shadow creatures Narcus mentioned sound absolutely brilliant. There completely to boost the atmosphere. Sometimes having the player focused on other things can leave them so much more opened to being completely freaked out. I could imagine following them around with my flashlight and then having something leap out at me.

Action. When the killer jumps out of the closet, you should be kept moving extremely fast until he's dead/gone. No time to think, no time to plan, barely enough time to act on instinct alone. That's tense.

Variety. I've just used the classic "jump out" situation here as an example, but you should vary your techniques for introducing enemies. Randomizing things is very good. If the killer got you the first time, make it so the player returns to the same closet and have the killer come out somewhere else. Try to apply logic like that as much as possible, not only is it more scary, but strategy guides ruin the experience less.

So that's just a few ideas of the top of my head. Keep the atmosphere focused on paranoia, and don't do cheesy predictable things.

[edited by - LockePick on May 16, 2002 9:50:39 PM]

Narcus: What about those freakin dogs jumping out of the windows in RE1? I think the true scary thing in RE is running out of ammo or have no room for an important item, heh.

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