The Game i am working on has run into a snag, or more so, i have. I have this complex system which allows the game to be more to the users preference. What i have done is include multipleways of battling. There is : Turn Based (FF1 style) Active Time (FF6 style) Real Time (Diablo style) The problem isnt in the implementation of the first two, which was simple enough, but the real time. It is just near impossible to include some of the features crucial to my battle system. Issue 1: Weapon switching. In the Other systems, you can switch between weapons without consequence, but with how i coded the real time battles, if you switch weapons, you can get hit, and not attack until the action goes through, leaving the player dead at high level enemies. Issue 2: Blocking. You can use your weapon to block enemy attacks, but this cant be included in the turn based or active time, except as a crappy ass defend command. Do i drop blocking all together, or go out of my way to find some good system for the other 2 systems. These 2 issues a wreaking havoc on my animators, because choices i make could mean recreating whole action models. WHAT DO I DO???

Take a look at Vagrant Story (PSX) They have basically a real time action battle system with the stipulation that when an attack happens, everything halts until the end of the attack. Bear in mind that not every great idea is implementable yet as we don''t have processors with infinite speed (nor will we probably ever). However, in the absense of the power and/or cash to implement an idea, there are artistic alternatives which sometimes improve the quality of the game. Obviously you must consider realism so that the player believes the system, but also remember that combat is generally Choas requiring split second decisions where the wrong one could result in your death. Strict realism probably isn''t the best path to follow.

-> Will Bubel
-> Machine wash cold, tumble dry.

You want the user to be able to switch between these modes? You are going to have to either balance them all seperately or live with the fact that the player can have an advantage depending on the mode he or she selects. Even Turn based vs. active time... if all actions take place at the same rate under turn-based, but have different speeds under active time, the same action will have a different level of effectiveness. It would definitely made your task easier if you stuck to one system... but maybe you have a good reason for not doing so?

That sounds very similar to the idea I''m working on...

but I''ve dealt with it in the fashion that the game runs in real-time - except the player can pause it to issue complex commands at any time - the control system changes for the most part, except for the pause button.

Blocking and attacking are a function of attack stance and the engage command - there''s no explicit block command (there is a defend command - that has the character defend and run away from attacks), but its taken care of in the fact that the characters fight fairly dynamically - almost like 2 AI opponents fighting each other in a fighting game. The stance determines how defensive and aggressive they are during engagements. The more aggressive stances allow for faster attacks, but also gives the opponent more chances to retaliate.
The more defensive stance in the opposite - where they''ll block/parry/evade until they see a large window of oppurtunity.

For you... I''d suggest maybe melding the ''Active time'' and the ''Turn based'' systems into one - as the active time idea is really just a superflous extention of the turnbased concept.

Instead of finding direct parallels - you might want to give the player similar ideas but different features that in the end are similar in balance.

Maybe you want to include say, action points in the turn based command - 2 actions per turn say - block takes one action, and a weak attack takes one as well. Magic and strong attacks might take two for example...

Zaptruder

turn based and active time cant be merged into one.
The whole purpose of having multiple battle systems is so the user can stop bitching how this game should use real time/active time/turn based combat.

The last forum i was at, i inadvertantly started a flame war asking what type of battle system people prefer.

The user cant switch between the systems in battle either. The player has to be dormant for that.

Well, as a matter of implementation, you could do a both situation. For example, Have a running timer system. In this example, lets make the time system be a function that decreases everyone''s wait time by 1. Then, we allow that when an important event is happening, we halt time to do all of the critical animations on that event; Magics, the actual hit part of an attack, etc, and menu selection. Then what we do is prioritize commands with a wait phase and an attack phase. Enter a command on a character, then the wait phase sets in, and time moves real. Then, the attack phase goes when the wait counter reaches 0. During the attack phase, the character does noncritical animation, like racing across a field to the enemy he is going to attack. When he reaches a critical part in his animation, all other animations going on halts, and he does his critical portion of the animation. After, we return to realtime and the character finishes up with any leftover animation, perhaps waits a bit, and then time halts and he''s ready for another command. The two benfits here is that one you have a system where things go in real time, i.e. multiple characters racing across the battlefield, and two that you can just associate short wait times to things like an explicit Defend command, or a re-equip, thus rearranging the battle order and leaving the player some time to think strategically. Its a bit of a take off the final fantasy usual active time system, except if you adjust the times associated with any command, you just don''t race into a fight and ULTIMA every turn. Play with the idea.

-> Will Bubel
-> Machine wash cold, tumble dry.

alright. Finished eating.

The battle system im using, when the character selects an action when the timer is at full. The action you select will deduct a certain amount of time from the Active Time Guage. This amount depends on the action and your Wait level.
So lets say the player casts Ultima. There is no spell named this, but it will represent the most powerful spell. The active time gauge will go down all the way, and you have to wait considerably longer to recharge as opposed to using Fire 1.
Attacking on average costs around 1/2 of your ATG so you wont wait as long as after ultima.

Turn based is simaler to chrono cross's. You have to perform a certain amount of action to use higher level spells, but these can be any actions, spells have there own areas that open up in the spell menu. You can tell how far you have gone by the spell meter for the character.

Real Time Battle has something like a combo of the 2 above. When you use a standard attack, it deducts from your stamina meter. This doesnt take too long to recharge, in fact, it is a very short wait. When you use a spell, the gameplay pauses, and you select the spell and the target, after which gameplay resumes. Then the magic meter (like stamina meter, but for magic) which takes longer to recharge, but you can use whatever spells in the level the macig meter has reached

see?
You cant switch battle types in action. Just when the player is only walking and stuff.

[edited by - black_mage_s on April 10, 2002 6:06:15 PM]

^bump^

so im assuming no one can help?

quote:

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Original post by black_mage_s
The battle system im using, when the character selects an action when the timer is at full. The action you select will deduct a certain amount of time from the Active Time Guage. This amount depends on the action and your Wait level.
So lets say the player casts Ultima. There is no spell named this, but it will represent the most powerful spell. The active time gauge will go down all the way, and you have to wait considerably longer to recharge as opposed to using Fire 1.
Attacking on average costs around 1/2 of your ATG so you wont wait as long as after ultima.

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I really like the idea of not resetting the atb and instead simply subtracting from it. It makes more sense that something like Ultima would reset it completely while a basic attack wouldn''t affect it as much.