After reading some of the comments here, I feel that the age old adage of, you can fool some of the people some the time, but you can''t fool all the people all the time", should have the word "fool" replaced with "please".

While I''m a huge proponent of respect and courtesy, I think that if people are offended by someone''s interpretation of religious readings, then they really should just ignore that person. Religion is so rife with subjective interpretations that for someone to feel that they KNOW what is right and don''t like someone else''s interpretation reeks of intolerance.

Although I''m baptised Holy Roman Catholic, I can''t say that I''m a true believer. I believe there is a God, but I don''t take the bible literally. However, on the few occasions I step into a church I respect what it represents very much...perhaps more so than some so called Christians. I know self professed "saved" christians that don''t blink an eye at having illegal cable in their homes, rip music from Gnutella, or use Warez from edonkey.

The simple fact is that people don''t want other people to tell them something that doesn''t jibe with their own belief system, so they either manipulate things to suit their needs or dismiss others to tarnish their way. It''s funny how people want tolerance, and yet deny it in others. Just like how the Puritans had originally settled in Holland, but left because even though they wanted religious freedom, the Dutch were TOO tolerant, because they wouldn''t allow the Puritans to enforce THEIR beliefs on others. I think the Puritanical legacy still exists in America today...we want our freedom, so long as we can impose our idea of freedom on others.

So my vote is to create a game that delves into Christianity with both fists swinging. There are many passages and theological ideas that are good candidates for very intriguing storytelling. For example, what did God mean in Genesis when he turned to the angels after Adam and Eve ate of the tree of knowledge and said, "for know we must cast them out, for if they eat of the tree of life, they shall become like us"?

quote: Original post by Dauntless
The simple fact is that people don''t want other people to tell them something that doesn''t jibe with their own belief system, so they either manipulate things to suit their needs or dismiss others to tarnish their way. It''s funny how people want tolerance, and yet deny it in others. Just like how the Puritans had originally settled in Holland, but left because even though they wanted religious freedom, the Dutch were TOO tolerant, because they wouldn''t allow the Puritans to enforce THEIR beliefs on others. I think the Puritanical legacy still exists in America today...we want our freedom, so long as we can impose our idea of freedom on others.

Interesting...who exactly are you referring to here? No one is saying you CANT make a game like that. I, and some others are just expressing our opinion that we don''t want to see a game like that. It''s old stuff, and games are all about new stuff. Otherwise we''d still be playing NESs. The content as well as the technology. I''m glad that games are one medium that doesnt get all high and mighty. (most of the time) And I just express my opinion to keep it that way. Ok, you have your opinion too, you want to see something like this. But what I don''t understand is why do you people who advocate religion here always use the same argument? The "Well you must not be firm in your belief system" argument. You are the second person to say that. That brings it on a much more personal level, and I don''t think we need a religious flame war here. I''ll just tell you that I am very comfortable as an agnostic and just simply tired of seeing the same old story. Thats my opinion, and please keep your arguments about anyone else''s personal beliefs out of the discussion, as it can start a flame war.

We understand, you support having a religious game.

-=Lohrno

I don''t know Lohrno, I didn''t read Dauntless'' comments the same way that you did. It looked to me like he was making a general statement of observation about double standards in the US and not something targetted at anyone specifically.

Lohrno

My comments are trying to reflect the fact that there are people here that seem uncomfortable with the idea of a religious based game which the designer (as it sounds like he is trying to do) is trying to be as true to the faith as possible...just couching the setting in the backdrop of a Christian theme. What bothers me is I don''t see why they are so sensitive. It''s one thing to be disrespectful, it''s another to just not like something because it may not reflect the exact interpretation that they have. If he had created a game based on say Buddhist Arhats trying to find the last Dhyannabuddha so as to save the world, I seriously doubt anyone would object.

My reference was in general, though some posters here gave me the impression that they weren''t willing to give a game such as this a chance because of constant references to keeping his game intact, but "changing the names to protect the innocent". Why? If it is not their own personal thoughts, then I would worry not about offending the sort of people that would raise holy hell about a game like this.

If I''m getting on a personal level, sorry, but I honestly believe things like this are important. You''re right, religion should be personal. It should not be forced on others. Which is precisely why I made that post in the first place. If a game is being disrepectful or denigrating about a certain subject, then of course people have a right to object, but otherwise I don''t think people should even worry about what any possible feelings of a game of this nature being offensive. The sad truth is that there would be people that would find this game offensive for whatever reason, simply because it is based on Christian themes.

My comments are based on my personal observations and experiences with people in general and how they view their religion. My argument is not, "you must NOT be firm in your belief system", but rather "don''t enforce your viewpoint on others". If we did not have this attitude in life, then we''d be suffering the same fate that exists in Northern Ireland or in the Middle East. IT is very important I think. I think it''s good to be strong in your convictions, it''s what gives you strength and values. However, when a person starts getting offended because his beliefs are being treated in a way in which he finds not the same as his own, then it shows a lack of respect to the other person''s interpretations. So ultimately, my comment was about being respectful. The designer is being respectful, therefore all viewers should be as well.

Sandman: Yea, I said that second thing you quoted because e4''s description of the game didn''t varify whether or not it would push religion or not... Therefore I also said in one of my constructive criticisms that it would be best to make the game not direct/pushing in any way whatsoever. Of course, this is all still keeping in mind that there was no solid statement that confirmed either or. And, again, what I said was my opinion, was it not?

Well, I explained why I wouldn''t play a Monotheistic game while I would play a Polytheistic one, but could you anyway explain what ''double standard'' means?

Alex Ford
PointSoft EA Co., Ltd.
http://www.pointsoftonline.com

From dictionary.com:

quote:
double standard

n : an ethical or moral code that applies more strictly to one group than to another

For example, someone who says "It is alright for men to cheat on their wives, but it is not alright for women to cheat on their husbands" has a double standard.

As does someone who says "It is alright to make a game about religion, as long as that religion isn''t Christianity"

Sorry Dauntless, I guess I read too much between the lines there =D

This is a good point of yours about respecting other people''s belief system, I thought you were jumping in the same boat as EvilCrap, who before actually said something like this, while saying he was not religious.

About religious games though: I''m certainly not in the boat that would get ''offended'' at seeing a religious game or two. However, I will whine and moan if I see many more than that. But thats purely intellectual whining and moaning. It''s strange, but I guess I do have a double standard at least personally. I wouldn''t mind much if I saw Buddhist, or Islamic, or (some tribe in Africa''a religion). It''s not because I don''t like Christianity. It''s because I''ve heard it''s stories and too much. I''m not the kind of person who cares about all this so much that I would actually go to other countries just to study theologics though. Maybe if I was doing a project where I was told I HAD to make it religiously themed, I would, but my interest in Theology is not that big usually. I''d much prefer to see religions about worshipping crystals, and the hidden spirits in the planets, and all that sort of nonsense than some story that''s already been told though. I''m sure that if e4 actually did make a game like that, it would be successfull because of controversy, (like Mortal Kombat) people would make some clones, and then we''d see too many. That''s what I dont want to see. Maybe he should make a game like that, but as for me, I really do not want to see it, as I think it might be succesfull, (at least with the media) and I really don''t want to see a plethora of games based on real religions. A little religious theming is ok. (very little) So, I want to discourage all of you from thinking that this is a good idea. Unless you want the gaming scene to be full of games like this for a short time.

Just my opinion though...

-=Lohrno