Hey there, I'm really keen on making music on the comp but I just don't know where to start. (Sorry for sounding like a clueless newbie - but I_am_one. =P ) Anyway, which of the following music programs should I learn to use first? - MIDI sequencer (eg. Cakewalk) I've experienced making MIDIs using a simple sequencer (Noteworthy Composer) and just my normal keyboard and mouse. Now I'm trying to move on but Cakewalk scares me (and I do feel kinda useless and vulnerable without a MIDI keyboard). - Tracker (eg. ModPlug) I've also explored ModPlug Tracker but can't seem to master the more advanced features well (eg. Instruments section). And tracking's a bit time-consuming and dull (in a visual sense - for some reason, I just like to see real musical notes instead of letters/numbers on the screen.) - Sound editor (eg. Sound Forge, Cool Edit) Do I just download a wav sample, and then take it apart and experiment with all those functions in SoundForge/CoolEdit? How did you guys learn to use all these programs at first? - Loop-based program (FruityLoops, Acid) I'm a sucker for ambient, dance, electronica, etc., but I don't think I'll be composing solely in these styles. Orchestral music that has changing themes and dynamics doesn't go well with loop-based softwares, right? -------------- Ok, there can't be a definite answer to my question, huh? *sigh* I'm thinking that I should be able to handle SoundForge/CoolEdit and manipulating sound samples_before_venturing into trackers and loop-based programs. So I guess it comes down to MIDI sequencer or sound editor... The types of music I'm influenced by are, of course, RPG music by Nobuo Uematsu (Final Fantasy) and Yasunori Mitsuda (Chronotrigger, Xenogears), and all the 7 mp3s here: www.kturn.com Username: finerva Password: finerva [mp3s are in "Music" folder] What kind of music softwares do you think the composers used to create those songs (listed above)? It'd be awesome if I could follow in their footsteps or something. ----------------- Equipment... - MIDI sequencer Yeah, maybe I should get a MIDI keyboard after all. Since I'm not even sure whether I'm gonna take computer music composition seriously (sadly, I'm notorious for having constantly-fluctuating interests), my budget's limited to CAD$200. Any recommendations? - Sound editor Should I record my own sounds? If so, that means I'll need a microphone. Say my budget's CAD$100, what kind of mic can I get? ------------------- Damn, all this extensive computer music stuff has had me wandering aimlessly for a while (and yeah, I'm totally frustrated with myself too =P ). Would appreciate any advice, tips, etc. Thanks! -Finerva Edited by - Finerva on March 14, 2002 1:44:11 AM

I also started with Noteworthy... then moved to Cakewalk. It''s a great program. I have a Soundblaster sound card, which allows me to attach soundfonts to my midis. Here''s an example of a midi with soundfonts attached:

http://www.tidepool.com/~danad/temp/CelestSample.mp3

The first couple of months of using Cakewalk were quite frustrating, but now that I''m fairly comfortable with it, I love it. If you do decide to go this route, I''d recommend buying the book ''Cakewalk Power'' - it helped me a lot.

(BTW, I have a midi keyboard, but I suck at playing keyboard, so I mainly use the mouse and computer keyboard to enter notes).

Finerva,

It also depends a little on the format of the final output. Game engines usually will playback either MP3s (compressed WAVs) or tracker files (MOD, S3M, IT, XM).

If it''s MP3s you need, then you can get a good result doing it like Hawkes says. Make some nice MID files using soundfonts, then "render" those into waveforms, then compress them to MP3.

If it''s tracker files you need, then either:
1) Do the music in ModPlug from the start.
2) It is possible to import both MID files and their SoundFonts into ModPlug, then output tracker files (I think it''s XM). It''s limited though - you have to be aware of the way you use the soundfonts/instruments when you work in Cakewalk if you intend to import them into ModPlug at the end.

Trevize

Thanks for the replies.

I''m not composing specifically for games so the format doesn''t really matter (although I think I''ll have all of them converted to either mp3 or ogg vorbis).

Soundfonts... yeah, I''ve tried using them in ModPlug. But they don''t work good all the time since I don''t know how to edit them (do I have to learn Vienna as well? o_0;; ) nor normal wav samples. Besides I don''t always know my way around in ModPlug...

My main objective would be to able to make music like those mp3s and songs I love. (pls see my previous post for more info on this) I really want to know what music programs the composers most likely used to create music like that. Any ideas?

I''ve made up my mind to learn from those composers. For example, if they used maybe midi sequencers to compose those songs, I''ll go rent myself a midi keyboard and plunge headlong into Cakewalk and try to figure out how it all works (shouldn''t take me more than a year ). All I need is a starting point.

Thanks again!

-Finerva

You don''t need to use Vienna to use SFs (soundfonts). I use it occasionally, but it really isn''t necessary. You can find plenty of nice SFs that do not need any editing.
I didn''t listen to the examples that you posted (I have a slow connection and not enough patience to wait over an hour to listen to one of them).
I don''t see why you couldn''t do what you want to do using Cakewalk and SFs. There are some great sounding SFs out there - the tricky part is learning to be a great composer (and to a lesser extent, learning to use Cakewalk).

I hate to say it (because I always hate to hear it), but I would give 10:1 odds that Nobuo Uematsu, along with just about any composer you''ve heard of, has a couple really good sample-based synths in their arsenal. I''m not saying this because its *impossible* to do in software, but its a hell of alot harder. Still, an excellent soundfont is basically the same thing as one excellent patch on a good sample-based synth, so it follows that with some work, you should be able to build up a good collection of soundfonts to rival what the "big guys" use. As far as programs go- they more than likely use Cubase or Logic (probably Cubase) for sequencing. This is more or less the professional standard. Yes, there are professional composers who use everything from FruityLoops to Cakewalk to ModPlug to make really excellent music, (btw, there are better trackers around than ModPlug, take a look around) but you will find that they are few and far between compared to the composers who use primarily external gear and sequence through Logic or Cubase. Do what you want to get your feet wet, but keep in mind that you may have to learn a whole new way of doing things from the "Free Sequencer/Software-Only" approach in order to work professionally.

If Cakewalk scares you, you have not truly known fear, my friend. Take a look at Cubase''s deep options sometime. (You may want to wear plastic pants when you do so) Still, overall, Cubase is probably easier to use after a few weeks with it than Cakewalk is after the same time period. Its just a better-designed program, IMO. Also, there is no "glass ceiling" with Cubase like there is with Cakewalk. With Cakewalk, you will find after a year or so with it that there are things you would like to do that you just can''t because of built-in limitations.

Having said all that, I''ve tried Logic, (didn''t give it enough of a chance, honestly) and I own Cubase, Cakewalk, Reason, and some others, (including an uhhhh *extended evaluation* copy of Fruity Loops. glad i didn''t pay for that POS- it''d be nothing but a $150 coaster for me) but I still use Buzz Tracker for 90% of what I do. But I''m not interested in orchestral or instrumental styles as much, so YMMV Like I said, I''ve heard excellent examples of this style from each and every one of the major music-making methods out there. (holy alliteration, batman!) So my reccomendation is based on what *I* think will be easiest for you in the long run, nothing more. Master any one of these programs, and if you have excellent ideas to begin with, they will come through in the music.

If you see the Buddha on the road, Kill Him. -apocryphal

Hi Anonymous -
I''m curious... what are the main differences between Cubase and Cakewalk. I''ve never even seen Cubase. I mostly work w/ SFs and midi. I occasionally record one of the SF/midi tracks and add fx, but that''s about the only audio work that I do at this point. Is there a big difference in what it can do w/ midi, or is it mainly audio stuff?
Thanks.

Um…I wouldn’t be too worried about Soundforge and all that stuff unless you wanna start editing all the samples you use in your programs. For MIDI I recommend Cubase (albeit it’s expensive I think), but I still love my good ol’ trusty DOS Impuls Tracker I (and many others) find it much less time-consuming to track in than Modplug coz’ of the keyboard commands and stuff. Maybe I’m just old-skool I’ve heard that FastTracker is the easiest to learn of the trackers, so you may wanna check that out. There are also other trackers that display the notes in a more ‘musical’ form, i.e. in real notation and stuff. I’m just absolutely sh!t at reading music (I never really bothered learning…I can get my head around the rhythms ok, but just not all those key signatures and all that ‘forte’ and ‘fortissimo’ stuff), so I prefer to see it in a more…um…what’s the word…”mathematical” form I suppose. That way I instantly know which note it is, instead of having to work out was that a natural three bars back there, or was I in C sharp, or was it still a flat or…sod it, in my tracker I can see exactly what it was But then I guess if you use major keys a lot, then normal notation isn’t too bad. But just try to notate death metal…NOT easy, with all those diminshed scales and strange modes…

Hm. I ranted a bit offtopic here. I hope someone finds it interesting

BTW: If you wanna hear a good sample of what can be done in Fast Tracker, listen to the soundtrack of Twisted Edge snowboarding on the N64 – that funk/rock stuff was done in FT by a guy called Zack Ohren. It’s incredible.