What benefits would you expect your character to gain in a RPG if your character receives ultimate enlightenment? I want to include some type of mystical being (let''s call him Clyde)in my game who dispenses ultimate spritual enlightenment to charcaters. By "ultimate spiritual enlightenment" I mean that characters walk away from this being with a zen-like understanding of the universe and their own place in it. The effect of NPCs receiving this gift is that they will have an inner peace, which means that they will be slow to anger and will not make rash, unwise decisions (I have a mechanism worked out for NPCs to make unwise decisions, so there will be a noticeable contrast between the enlightened and unenlightened) My problem lies in deciding how the player''s character should benefit from an encounter with the Clyde. My current feeling on the subject is to not allow the player access to him. The only benefit I can think of is that the player gains some bonuses on spirit-type spells, but that seems like a trivial benefit that wouldn''t really convey the sense of "my character is one with the universe" that should come with enlightenment. Enlightenment will be communicated directly to the character''s spirit essence or somesuch, so that what is learned from Clyde can not be communicated from one mortal to another, and also gets me off the hook of actually needing to reveal the secrets of the universe to the expectant player if the PC does encounter Clyde. So, what new abilities would you expect your character to acquire if a RPG informs you that your character has reached the pinnacle of mortal wisdom? I still have a lot of the game to work out and am willing to add/adjust features to accomodate interesting ideas regarding this subject. The main focus of the game is going to be character(PC-to-NPC)interaction. Sean

I'm currently playing Wizardry 8, and there are two abilities that assist during gameplay - Artifacts and Mythology.

Artifacts helps characters identify items.
Myhtology helps characters evaluate creature strengths, abilities, and hit points.

Then there are resistances to certain types of magic. Perhaps enlightenment helps resist mental spells? And enchances information-providing spells?

In the Tolkien books, Gandalf seems to know everything about everything, too. Perhaps the character will then know which rumors have more truth to them, and have more of a sense of the secrets that lie beneath a land, and its history, and about the more prominent individuals that live there?

Edited by - Waverider on March 5, 2002 3:20:28 PM

Edited by - Waverider on March 5, 2002 3:23:16 PM

Well, if my character had reached the pinnacle of all mortal understanding, having the secrets of the universe bestowed upon him, knowing all that there is to know, I''d expect some really cool abilities. Like from The Matrix.

My character should instantly learn all spells (obviously), be able to dodge projectiles almost all the time (I know when they''ll be fired, after all), avoid most melee attacks (same reasoning), and kill enemies with a single blow barehanded (flawless knowledge of all martial arts styles and anatomies). I''ll have absolute mastery of all weapons too, so I should get a huge damage bonus with any of them, and never miss (I know which way my enemy is going to be dodging)
If there are any penalties to my character for moving across certain terrain, there shouldn''t be anymore (I would know the best paths through a forest, and where to step to get through a swamp, etc.) And, of course, I''ll never be ambushed, and I know if doors or chests are trapped without doing anything.

If, instead of being omniscient, you just meant being spiritually fulfilled, then how about the character gains health regeneration, the ability to ward off magic, or faster attacks?

If you really want to make an impact I feel that you would need two types of changes. One would have to be in abilites, the other would be how things react. For a cheap example of the first the character would have his spells greatly hightened, and (if there is a way to program this) have intuition into what is about to pass. For the second change, animals (even the usually disgruntled ones) will have a neutral outlook towards taht character. Perhaps he can communicate with thigs that are more in tune with the universe simply by expecting something. (how one would turn this into a game system is all up to you, lol) The player should feel that everything has chaged not just himself.

quote: If, instead of being omniscient, you just meant being spiritually fulfilled

Yes, I am talking about spiritual fulfillment as opposed to omniscience. Actually, "spiritual fulfillment" is a much better term than the "enlightenment" I''ve been using.

quote: The player should feel that everything has chaged not just himself.

I think that''s a very interesting perspective. I think if I can find a way to expand on that concept I can get the effect I''m looking for.

quote: Perhaps the character will then know which rumors have more truth to them

This idea would work quite well with what I have done so far. The plan formulation for all characters is based on evaluation of available information which has varying degrees of truth. Would you consider it acceptable to just be told, as the player, that your character considers rumor A to be much more closer to the truth than rumor B, with the only explanation being "you are enlightened, you just know", or would you feel a more elaborate explanation would be required to help suspend disbelief?

I think Waverider''s "secrets beneath the land" and astrum''s "communicating with non-humans" ideas are similar in that they suggest unconventional ways of obtaining information. I had not considered this option. Does anybody else think this is a reasonable benefit of spiritual enlightenment? If so, what other new avenues of communication should be open to the player? (Not that I don''t like the two ideas mentioned, I''m just trying to stimulate some more thought)


Thanks for the ideas so far (keep ''em coming)

-Sean

Maybe you could color-code the rumors to simulate their expected truth value. When enlightenment increases, the player can be more certain that a truthful rumor is actually correct. Perhaps display the list of all rumors told, maybe even separated by the source, since the source could also have an impact on expected truth value (persuasiveness, intellect, ethic, etc).

Could even be key to help figure out who might be lying to you, a possible plot device to solve a mystery.

Well, enlightenment is a very mundane thing in Chan Buddhism (aka Zen). Enlightenment is really just a sort of return to your beginner''s mind, like when you were a baby. If anything, Zen is removing things, not a final understanding. It''s sort of the ultimate freedom and peace, so I doubt it would give anyone any supernatural powers other than perhaps one thing...

Heightened senses. Zen meditation really trains one to perceive and think on a different level. When we I used to do martial arts practice, sometimes out of nowhere the sensei would throw a ball at us. If we were lucky, we caught or blocked it, but the senseit said THAT was satori. The immediate realization of action without thought. That''s why many Zen masters say that the first step towards Satori is mushin, which means "no mind". If you think, it''s too late already. But it''s more than just hard wired neuromuscular responses too. It''s hard to explain, but when you''ve achieved mushin, the next step is what Japanese call zanshin, which loosely translated is "spirit mind", or perhaps better translated as ESP.

As an anecdote, Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of Aikido was said to have been impossible to surprise. Sometimes his senior nage''s (in Aikido, there are Uke''s, the one''s that throw, and nage''s, the person that is thrown....teachers generally are uke''s, and students nage''s) would try to sneak up on him while he was asleep, but somehow Ueshiba always knew that his students were trying to do this.

Enlightenment isn''t really a realization of the mysteries of the universe, but rather a peace and freedom, and letting go of things. I don''t think it would grant that many powers other than as you mentioned, a sense of peace and calm. Other than the things I mentioned above, there wouldn''t be too many other powers offered.

however, there is always other martial arts training "powers"

Sorry to drift off-topic:

quote: Original post by Dauntless
in Aikido, there are Uke''s, the one''s that throw, and nage''s, the person that is thrown....

Actually it''s the other way around. "Uke" is the ''attacker'' (the one that is thrown) and "nage" is the one that performs an Aikido technique to defend him/herself (i.e. the one that ''throws'').

Well, in that case, how about a healing touch? It does seem par for highly spritual people.

Another thing (that would be easy to build a game off of) is an attribute of seeing new things. Oh, so you mean the weird events that happened in the castle were the result of unrested ghosts? I could almost see a differently colored spiritual overlay on the normal map, showing abnormalities and lines of power. "There''s a lot of negative energy flowing from the south..."

Additionally, once a character reaches a stage of enlightenment, it''s a great reason to quest. Fixing imbalances in the world, and such. Sure, other people my try, but you can actually see and understand it.

Hope that helps

Would you ever be one with the universe, I really doubt you'll harm anything, and that you'll achieve any goal you might have (could you even have a goal after that ?) in a subtil manner.

After all if you've a deep understanding of how the things works, you can affect the world at different places to easily get what you want.

Still I don't think that after having reach such a status you would want anything else but life in peace and harmony, and teach the others the way of enlightement.

-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-


Edited by - Ingenu on March 6, 2002 12:27:49 PM