Just a quick post of short snippets, as we''re never going to convince each other... cultural differences and all that.

As Krez has said, open source does not necessarily mean no money. There are many ways of generating revenue. The average user probably cannot even install a compiler, never mind compile your source into a working executable.

Everyone trying to lecture me on economics regarding the $2bn issue missed the point. I know it was stupid. I was just pointing out the fallacy in the suggestion that anything worth using is worth paying for, as "paying for" implicitly means paying the stipulated price. Borngamer later made a more reasonable statement to explain what he meant.

Just to clarify: I am not someone who says "all software should be open source". I am saying "open source software is a good thing". The key difference is that I am hoping, not preaching. I don''t think there is anything wrong with selling your wares. But I don''t think everything should be sold, and I certainly think the community at large would benefit if more software was ''open''.

Defining everything in terms of money is insufficient. Money in the bank account does nothing for you except generate more money. Money becomes useful when you spend it. My point is that by "benefitting the community", you put in your labor time and you reap the rewards - the only difference is that there''s no money as the middle man.

And if any of the out-and-out capitalists fear that open source software might destroy the commercial market... hard luck. If the commercial market isn''t good enough to compete with free software, then it didn''t deserve to stay in business. That''s capitalism for you - you can''t have it both ways

Oh... and if you don''t have enough money for food, then yes, I do feel you''re entitled to it. (Strange as that probably sounds to most of you.) Food, water, shelter... sure. Software? No, not really.

I could argue many more of these issues, except they''re not for the Game Design forum so I will bow out now. Sorry for contributing to the direction of this thread

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Open source models are great for cooperative development of software that is useful to businesses and professionals. After all, if all the companies that use MS Word today would have come together and funded some open source word processor project, they would probably have gotten a superior product for a fraction of the money that they currently pay in licenses to Microsoft. They would also not be held hostage by a proprietary document format (.doc) that forces them to use an expensive OS even though a less expensive one might accomodate their uses (the secret document format is also largely responsible for killing competition in the desktop OS and office application market).

Games and other forms of entertainment/culture are not really useful as tools ''to get the job done'' and there is not much value for the developer/artist in people being allowed to modify or improve on their works, especially since there is artistic integrity involved. This has caused many people, including Free Software gurus such as Richard Stallman, to indicate that games may not be the prime candidates for free software/open source development.

However, Open source/free software models can certainly be used to develop components of games that are needed by the game developers but have little effect on the competitive value of their product. For instance, it might make sense for development house to keep their 3D-engine proprietary if the game''s selling point is its great graphics, but the company could probably also save a lot of time and money by cooperating with other companies, academia and hobbyists by developing a stable networking library or certain tools as open source/free software projects.

Henry

[Off-topic]

quote:

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Original post by Siebharinn
You''re wrong, of course. Do you not ever watch the news? Read the paper? Watch the discovery channel?

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The news, discovery channel, and all other second-hand sources of information and largely biased/compromised by the predispositions of the providers.

quote:

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Heck, have you ever *been* anywhere? I have, so you can take your "misperceptions" and "stereotypes" and stick them.

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With all due respect, I am from a "Third World" country (Nigeria). I was born in the US, and currently live here, but I spent most of my formative years in Nigeria - I went to secondary school and three years of college there. I voted in the last elections. My parents live there, and my sister is a third-year architecture major there. Where''ve you been, and for how long?

I read the papers; I see the news reports. And they only further the images of Africa (in particular) and other "Third World" countries as "primitive" and "dark" hotbeds of barbaric behavior. They make me sick.

So, once again, keep your misperceptions of the so-called "Third World" to yourself. Even if you''ve been there, you''ve probably been conditioned to think of it in a certain way and therefore do not notice many of its positives (no offense).

We''ve got groceries and supermarkets, too.
[/Off-topic]

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Thanks to Kylotan for the idea!

...and yet there are SOME places, SOME of which are "third world" countries, where they DO barter in chickens. That fact is not disputable. At no point did he imply that everywhere outside of the G7 do people use flightless fowl as currency. He was simply defining an endpoint on a continuum of capitalistic techniques. Therefore, his small, seemingly innocuous example of what was obviously intended as a ludicrous extreme was perfectly valid.

Despite being a "moderator", YOU sir over-reacted in a bad way and are WAY out of line!

Dave Mark
Intrinsic Algorithm Development

Hmm, this is getting a little heated as well as off-topic... how about we all just agree to differ (or take the philosophical and cultural discussions to the Lounge), and finish this thread? There''s another thread dealing more specifically with SpittingTrashcan''s original point, anyway.

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Yeah I have to agree that you went overboard Oluseyi - like you I spent my formative years in a third-world country and I didn''t find what he said offensive in any way.

There are plenty of third-world countries that aren''t as advanced as Nigeria (architecture major? the place I was in did not have tertiary education). Sure you could argue that those places are ''fourth-world'', but you know what he meant.

And although we had currency, pigs and chickens were bartered for sure.

I know why I said what I said: the implicit overgeneralization to all third world countries. Sure, he didn''t say so - but that''s why it''s implicit, isn''t it? My reasons actually extend way beyond the purview of this thread, into very contentious and controversial social/political issues.

Therefore, I apologize to Siebharinn and drop the subject.

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Thanks to Kylotan for the idea!

quote:

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I know why I said what I said: the implicit overgeneralization to all third world countries. Sure, he didn''t say so - but that''s why it''s implicit, isn''t it? My reasons actually extend way beyond the purview of this thread, into very contentious and controversial social/political issues.

Therefore, I apologize to Siebharinn and drop the subject.

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I apologize as well. It wasn''t meant as a stick at any other culture or country. I was only trying to state that even in a simplified economic model (which bartering is), both sides benefit from a transaction. My "third world country" comment was probably unnecesary, I could have made the bartering point without it.

Take care,
Bill