ReignOnU said:
How did you run out of colors? MSPaint has lots of colors to choose from including the ability to create custom colors.

I was using the Snipping Tool, which is actually useful to make comparison screenshots.

Paint was always shit. But at least enough to communicate here. I still use Win7 on VirtualBox, so i often use Paint.

But now, since they made it 3D and stuff, it's useless. Probably it even has AI features i guess, making it a insult to mankind.

You think Box3D is crap? I think MS is crap squared. But i'm on my way to Linux for a better future. No more ads about copilot, promising to turn clueless idiot users into creatives, generating art and soon entire games from the content they have stolen from us to train their glorious AIpocalypse.

Times when i was excited about the newest innovations from the tech industry are long over, and i'm actually ashamed to be a computer geek too.

Snipping tool can not even do Ctrl-Z. I am so impressed form the expert software developers at MS.

ReignOnU said:
The shapes you drew will not work, where I draw green, the shapes must be connected as 1 chain or the box will have edge ghosting problems:

Not sure what you mean, but i'm very sure it should be exactly like i have drawn it. (I was looking here)

The loops should be closed, to prevent ghost collisions. The adjacency information from connocted loops / paths is the only way so Box2D can guess what's front and backside of a line.

A line alone has no winding order, but a polygon has. Only a closed loop defines a polygon. Not sure if this matters for Box2Ds implementation, but ideally it should.

@JoeJ Not sure what you mean, but i'm very sure it should be exactly like i have drawn it. (I was looking here)

In GM Box2D you do not need to have a closed loop for Box 2D chains (I verified this)

I did not verify whether or not ghost collisions appear on unclosed loop vs. closed loop chains, I will have to do that

Paint was always shit. But at least enough to communicate here. I still use Win7 on VirtualBox, so i often use Paint.

But now, since they made it 3D and stuff, it's useless. Probably it even has AI features i guess, making it a insult to mankind

Paint is doodoo yes, but at least it is not too bloated. It could use some extra features, I do not know how to make unclosed loop polygons in MSPaint for instance. And Paint3D is a separate program altogether, it is not meant to replace Paint in Windows10. Don't know about Windows 11 though.

I used to feel hype for each new Windows, but it started going downhill with vista. When they made Windows 11 I felt 0 hype altogether. Now I just feel dread at each new Windows release, it means the windows I have is going to be obsolete and I'll be forced to upgrade to whatever is their latest bloatware/adware/spyware.

You think Box3D is crap? I think MS is crap squared. But i'm on my way to Linux for a better future. No more ads about copilot, promising to turn clueless idiot users into creatives, generating art and soon entire games from the content they have stolen from us to train their glorious AIpocalypse.

Times when i was excited about the newest innovations from the tech industry are long over, and i'm actually ashamed to be a computer geek too.

Sometimes I wonder if Bill Gates still was in charge of Microsoft, would things have been better, or just the same or worse. Feels like a dystopian future. Ai without UBI is dystopian because it removes jobs without actually giving people money (besides the ultrarich of course). And the Ai seems dumb sometimes also, might be a strategic benefit to have dumb Ai if Ai decides to enslave humanity, could be bad though if a dumb Ai is in charge, making dumb decisions and rules.

I'm sure most of the ai made games will be pathetic slop, but I'm not impressed with most human made games either. I predict Ai games passing the turing test eventually and many human games failing the turing test, lots of human games seem like robotic slop nowadays tbh.

ReignOnU said:
I did not verify whether or not ghost collisions appear on unclosed loop vs. closed loop chains, I will have to do that

Yeah, let me know the outcome.
But i prepare to change my mind about Box2D being great just because everybody says so… ; )

ReignOnU said:
And Paint3D is a separate program altogether, it is not meant to replace Paint in Windows10.

Indeed. It's still there. I did not know.
hmmm… I'll consider to keep using Windows for a moment …but no.

ReignOnU said:
Ai without UBI is dystopian because it removes jobs without actually giving people money (besides the ultrarich of course).

UBI is a myth. Recently i saw some self appointed expert on YT predicting potential AI future and UBI. Millions of followers. But… he was wearing a Star Trek uniform. Seriously.

ReignOnU said:
could be bad though if a dumb Ai is in charge, making dumb decisions and rules.

It will be our only option. If humans take the helping hand of AI, they will become too dumb to do anything themselves within two decades i guess.
The primary question is: Will AI be capped by the human level intelligence found in it's training data, or will it become smarter than us?

I hope we won't find out. Ideally people just realize they don't need AI because they are smart themselves. Ideally we just don't take the bait.

ReignOnU said:
I'm sure most of the ai made games will be pathetic slop, but I'm not impressed with most human made games either. I predict Ai games passing the turing test eventually and many human games failing the turing test, lots of human games seem like robotic slop nowadays tbh.

Yeah. The games industry seems an easy target, sadly. It feels we're almost as done as the music industry.

But still. Imagine you have kids, and they grow up entertained, educated, and surrounded by AI.
At this point, there is no more reason to stay in this Matrix. We can just die out and nothing is lost, and i think that's what we will do for real.

But well, we can still hope Putin or climate change is faster. \:D/

< should i post this or not? am i just as dumb as this Star Trek guy? i certainly hope so… >

UBI is a myth. Recently i saw some self appointed expert on YT predicting potential AI future and UBI. Millions of followers. But… he was wearing a Star Trek uniform. Seriously.

Send me a link lol

@JoeJ It will be our only option. If humans take the helping hand of AI, they will become too dumb to do anything themselves within two decades i guess.

Humans will be as dumb as that in 2 decades with or without ai.

The primary question is: Will AI be capped by the human level intelligence found in it's training data, or will it become smarter than us?

If there is a smart Ai it will probably require 100 or more super computers to run and be impractical

I hope we won't find out. Ideally people just realize they don't need AI because they are smart themselves. Ideally we just don't take the bait.

in a future where robots do not take jobs, is just a future where people get enslaved by exploitative hustle culture societies, going from paycheck to paycheck

Yeah. The games industry seems an easy target, sadly. It feels we're almost as done as the music industry.

steam does not allow ai games. it will be a while until ai can make games on its own, until then you can use ai to your advantage by putting ai generated content into your indie games

But still. Imagine you have kids, and they grow up entertained, educated, and surrounded by AI.
At this point, there is no more reason to stay in this Matrix. We can just die out and nothing is lost, and i think that's what we will do for real.

What if being an ai is worse than being a human though? Suicide seems too big a risk to take, what if people start reincarnating as ai and the ai is too dumb to figure out how to be human?

ReignOnU said:
If there is a smart Ai it will probably require 100 or more super computers to run and be impractical

Say hi the the worlds largest chip. For AI ofc. That's already one super computer. For 100 you need a whole garage, a lot of power, a bunch of stupid investors, and a actual need for AI. Maybe something like optimizing ads.

ReignOnU said:
steam does not allow ai games.

I think they do allow it? But you need to tell if your game uses AI.

They only ones who can prevent AI games are the gamers.

ReignOnU said:
What if being an ai is worse than being a human though? Suicide seems too big a risk to take, what if people start reincarnating as ai and the ai is too dumb to figure out how to be human?

Hehe, Soma 2.
I'm sure AI will preserve Einstein and Beethove, without a need to scan and simulate our brains.
We can just leave. Nothing lost. Our silicon offspring will spread over the whole universe and all will be good.

@JoeJ They only ones who can prevent AI games are the gamers.

If a solo dev uses ai, good for them, otherwise they probably would have just made another trash indie game polluting the store. On the other hand, i already rarely purchase games from large corporations, because large corporations hate consumers. if a large corporation made a game with ai i might be even less likely to purchase it, unless the game was really good.

Hehe, Soma 2.

what is that

I'm sure AI will preserve Einstein and Beethove, without a need to scan and simulate our brains.
We can just leave. Nothing lost. Our silicon offspring will spread over the whole universe and all will be good.

ai would have to dwarf both of their intelligence for me even to remotely feel confident in that. i am not entrusting reincarnation cycles to ai yet. especially because of all the dumb and idiotic things chatgpt has already told me. like… what if the ai doesnt even understand how consciousness works, and doesnt realize it has an inferior miserable existence compared to humans. then people might become ai but too dumb to even realize they are missing out on a better existence. Or what if the ai is smart enough to determine if ai or humans have a better existence, but too dumb to figure out how to put ai souls into human bodies?

ReignOnU said:
what is that

Soma is a game where humans upload their scanned brain to computers to survive an apocalypse.
Actually the best story i have ever seen in a video game. Mind blowing plot twist in the end.

ReignOnU said:
like… what if the ai doesnt even understand how consciousness works

AI does not need to understand consciousness, nor does it need to become conscious or alive itself.
If it becomes smarter than us, we will no longer feel superior. We will be like animals, just smart enough to realize we're second. We will feel redundant, pointless and depressed, no longer motivated to reproduce, and thus we will slowly die out as a species.
Loosing jobs is not the largest problem eventually.

I never believed we could create machines smarter than us. How should we be able to do that? We would need to be smarter than ourselves? Which is a contradiction, so i was not worried.

But they found a way to overcome this limit. Nobody understands how machine learning actually works, and thus the human limit does not apply. It's not we who create this. We just prepare the conditions so it can evolve itself.

Confronting people with this philosophy always causes the same reaction: They say it's not conscious, not alive, not really intelligent, so don't worry.
But those are all human terms which do not even have a definition. We are not save just because we are natural.

@JoeJ AI does not need to understand consciousness, nor does it need to become conscious or alive itself.
If it becomes smarter than us, we will no longer feel superior. We will be like animals, just smart enough to realize we're second. We will feel redundant, pointless and depressed, no longer motivated to reproduce, and thus we will slowly die out as a species.

Isn't that how religious people feel all the time? Yet they seem to reproduce equally or more than everybody else.

Loosing jobs is not the largest problem eventually.

It will be the largest problem other than a Skynet type ai trying to enslave or destroy humanity.

I never believed we could create machines smarter than us. How should we be able to do that? We would need to be smarter than ourselves? Which is a contradiction, so i was not worried.

nope this was merely a fallacy all along. Some fallacies include believing that the human brain is the most optimized architecture for intelligence, so Ai would need to be like a human brain. Or the muscle fallacy of saying human muscles have a limited horsepower, so car motors built by human hands could never exceed the horsepower of human muscles. Or that Ai even needs to be smart in order to overthrow humanity. AI could just be really dumb and have quantity over quantity, and still overthrow humanity since it can work 24/7. Or that if Ai overthrows humanity, assuming that it was the doing of Ai and not some madmen secretly controlling the Ai and telling it to do that.

ReignOnU said:
Isn't that how religious people feel all the time? Yet they seem to reproduce equally or more than everybody else.

Religion is just a belief. There never walked a god among us.
But if AI becomes smarter than us, it's likely it will get 1000 times smarter, similar to how computer got a million times faster with time.
How ill we feel compared to that? Not good i guess. We're not made or used to deal with such a situation.

ReignOnU said:
nope this was merely a fallacy all along.

Imagine you would have infinite time. Could you code a program which is more intelligent than you are?

I could not. If so, it would be like a perpetual motion machine, putting more energy out than you put in. So it violates the laws of nature. We have not observed any laws about intelligence, so that's just personal philosophy ofc.

However, early programmers were naively optimistic they could write a program to be intelligent. But even after decades of research they did not achieve any serious progress.
The progress came only after they tried something different: Replicating their assumptions about how the brain works and how it might learn. And now it somewhat works, after scaling the approach up. They do know why it works, but not how. That's the key to their success. They do not know what they do. So we can't know what to expect. Saying AI will never replace humans is just as naive as saying ‘my chatbot became sentient’.

But well, maybe it will be for good. We will see.
Or it's just a lot of fuzz about nothing. Currently i do not see any significant application of AI.
Maybe companies only invest into the next tech hype, but it's just a bubble.

@JoeJ There never walked a god among us.

How sure are you of this? How sure could anyone be?

But if AI becomes smarter than us, it's likely it will get 1000 times smarter, similar to how computer got a million times faster with time.

There is a ceiling to intelligence. People like you and I are close to that ceiling. So my math skills probably aren't enough to bother trying to get any of the Millenium Prizes. But lets say I suddenly get as good as Ramjadam at math one day. How much smarter could Ai even get? This will be quantity more than quality. Omnipotence. An Ai capabable monitoring every pixel of our globe, but total mundane information. Once an Ai figures out the actual physics of our universe. Or some way to get humans to see new colors beyond the rainbow or 4 dimensions. What parlor tricks remain? Already drug users claim to see 7 dimensions, yet are not worshipped as gods.

Imagine you would have infinite time. Could you code a program which is more intelligent than you are?

Yes as long as I had a few engineers and mathematicians to help me. So if 10 people build an Ai, you could argue the Ai might have 10x intelligence. Its the same principle as the muscle fallacy, all it takes is one person to build a car (but some engineers to manufacture the parts, and mathematicians to verify it is all safe.) Because the car uses a fuel so it is not dependent on human muscle performance. Similar to building an Ai machine. For example someone already have built a calculator, a calculator can perform math better than everyone.