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How would you do 4X?

Started by May 25, 2023 09:34 AM
7 comments, last by kwikc 1 year, 4 months ago

With my life being pure chaos, I had to get a distraction, so I have started making a simple 4X game, i.e. a game like Civilization, in JavaScript. The big inspiration was A:I started playing Civilization 1 online again, and felt the old drive but also limited, and B: I have since learned some algorithms for creating infinite game worlds, and I always hated how crampedthe Civ maps were. So why not try my own!

The major differences from other 4X games will likely be the size of maps (laaarge, maybe infinite), tech tree (large, maybe 1000+ of both advances, improvements, and units), and a very simple visual format (think Civ1 but higher res, using a lot of AI generated images for background). It's no revolution, but it seems like a doable side project, considering my existing interests (history, big time!)

Before getting too far into it, though, I wanted to know if there ae any 4X buffs out there who always wanted some feature to be put into a game, or love some idea that other 4X games do not explore beyond the basics. If you have ideas for what to put into a 4X, let me know?

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4X games, at least good ones, are not “simple”.

For example, defining the constraints for the automatic generation of stats, names and graphics for numerous unit variants and then testing them is more difficult than designing a small range of units and making changes gradually according to playtest findings.

Making numerous cultural and technological advancements is even harder, because if you don't resort to arbitrary technobabble (e.g. Holmes reactors consuming refined Moranian energy crystals to power neutron burst cannons, or unearthed Moranian spellbooks detailing how to use skink eyes and polished aluminium cubes to summon a lightning storm over a city that includes one or more large islands) they need to be authored one by one without significant procedural generation to make sense (e.g. liquid nitrogen delivery in tanks requires trucks and air liquefaction plants, which in turn require strong energy sources and a long list of other things, and enables advanced ice cream and improved biological research).

Regarding large maps, Civilization represents a whole planet on a somewhat coarse scale that has been carefully chosen as a compromise between detail and game length (not too much expansion before the world-conquest endgame, not finishing advancements too soon or too late).

What different balance do you want? Do you want a genuinely larger world (i.e. many planets and means to move between them) at the price of reduced detail? Or more detail and micromanagement (i.e. higher complexity, a larger number of smaller territories, smaller actions and turns)? Or a longer middle game of efficient expansion before contacting everyone and exploring everywhere (i.e. a large planet)? What justifies making individual games longer?

Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru

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@LorenzoGatti “A simple 4X” just means “simpler than commercial ones like Civ1”. No game is truly simple, from a dev POV. The advancements, improvements and units are a hobby of mine to design, so I've already got many and enjoy making more. And map size is just, well, as big as possible I do it because I like it, not because of some market calculations. I don't even plan to capitalize on it. But planets could be a fun thing, I did ponder that before!

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Making a game that isn't too ambitious to finish or tedious or unbalanced is the purpose of game design, not a “market calculation”.
And you don't seem to appreciate how 4X games have more complex and more delicate rules than most other game types, because they are a vast system that has to be designed holistically and needs to keep working well whatever the player does in a long game: without easy winning strategies (but also without unnecessary complications), without obvious cheating AI opponent, without wasting the player's time with a long agony when they are going to lose (but allowing recovery after small failures), and so on.

If you enjoy a complex tech tree and you dislike “cramped” maps, maybe you could focus the game on the former and abstract away the latter: the user interface could be mostly about who is assigned to work on what (building, research, status of cities and projects…) with units moving only on a strategic scale between garrisons, colony sites, exploration targets, battlefields (possibly with individual tactical maps) and other sparse sites, without placing them on a grid.

Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru

@LorenzoGatti This is just for fun, not for a debate on whether I appreciate this or that. Sorry if you feel that way. I am just looking for ideas, not debate. If it all fails, I am okay with that. This is just for kicks. I feel that you approach the topic from a very different point of view. Again, sorry about that, but this is just my project for fun.

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You could set 4X into a deviating design for a one person development project. For example a, maybe more complex, grow game (like you know from eyezmaze). With each turn the player will eXplore new points to invest resource in to eXpand the complexity of the structure, by maxing out the growing points/game objects the player is eXploiting those for more resources and could even eXterminate them or hostile grown objects to gather new growing points or resources. Like a snake grow game combination. A variety of settings is possible. The challenge is just to max out the game.

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Make a square top down map. Expand the map by extending the square lines. Always start from
1 square when generating. Then shift the camere into 45° birds view. This will make processor
handle the map generation better.

Since the map is infinite, there must be an infinite quest system generating quests making gamers having gameplaying reason moving on the map.

None

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