Hi everyone,

I've had a few paid projects, but I am still pretty new to composing for games, and I'm hoping to get some honest feedback on some of my work from the more seasoned composers here. I'm looking for feedback on any aspect of my music, specifically the audio engineering side, as I feel that is my weakest area. What does the overall quality sound like? Does it sound "realistic"? Is it properly mixed, mastered, compressed, etc?

The two tracks I'm sharing here are from a LoTR mod for AoEII that I recently scored. The first is the theme music that plays when you are on the main menu, and is my biggest attempt so far to use an entire virtual orchestra.

And the second is a piece that plays in game in the background for the evil civilizations like Mordor. It's meant to be both ambient and epic/creepy.

Any insight is greatly appreciated. 

K on the first one, the voices really don't fit all that much. I really like the middle where you have the drums, and you get the feel of a marching army.
Second one is the same. You really captured the beat well in the middle, but you did the same thing with the bell which you could either tone down, or make it a more bass sound.
There's also something not quite perfect about the start and the end of the second one.... Don't quite know what...

Also I love that you made and AOEII Mod. I was gonna make a MOBA one too one day awesome stuff!

Welcome! Always happy to give feedback. Please take what I say as constructive, honest feedback and keep in mind I'm just one person. 

Main Theme - I liked the opening but by 47 seconds in, I was ready for a different, more distinct texture. I can hear the trading off, cycling and even doubling of parts between the voices and the strings but they just kind of meander around. It also doesn't help that the vocal patch is very synthy sounding and is all composed of the same vowel shape. 

You can create a sense of epic scale and progression while having a more stable and set melody. Oblivion's main theme comes to mind: 

After a little prelude it becomes VERY clear what the melody is and what parts of supporting. In your main theme, which should traditionally be the most iconic melody of the soundtrack, it's hard for me to really know what your melody is from just one listen. You have some really nice moments and overall the production is pretty good! I just think you need a bit more focus on your melodies. Perhaps even the arrangement - i.e. how the rest of your track supports and interacts with that melody. 

Also check out Spitfire Labs Choir - it's free. And it sounds GORGEOUS. The attack is VERY slow so this free patch will only work on certain styles of writing. But it will sound so much more realistic than the vocal patch you're currently using.

Quick point on Lands of Shadow - your drums are distracting here. It's not enhancing but rather subtracting from the experience. I would work on the mix between your percussion and your other instruments. And be careful of things that repeat for too long and are higher pitch (i.e. 3:04). That can get REALLY annoying, really fast. Try and look for ways to create tension and progression without being so repetitive. Try things like changing to other instrument sections, changing textures, etc. This track, in my opinion, is way too repetitive to be effective, honestly. 

With ambient music you can afford to really pare things back. Less can become way more in this regard. 

Even the more tense areas can be served with less activity to truly keep the music more ambient feeling:

Hope that helps! 

Thanks, 

Nate

I think to fix the voices in the first track, try playing them in legato or extend the release just a bit more so the transitions between the notes sound a bit more smoother. I also think the timpani is too loud, so I might tune that down.

At 1:41, watch for muddiness. It begins to sound unclear due to build-up of low end. To fix this muddiness, use a high-pass on your higher frequency instruments and also make sure to only include a couple or fewer low end instruments at one time.

As a last tip, use the fundamentals of orchestra volume placement. There are usually three placements; the foreground (where the melody lies), the middle ground, and the background. Place a section of the orchestra in each of these three slots and adjust the volumes accordingly.

I really like the melodic and harmonic construction of your songs though. They are very interesting to listen to and seem to take inspiration from a variety of different sources, not just the Lord of the Rings films or LOTRO.

Thank you all for the great responses! This kind of feedback is exactly what I need

On 1/17/2019 at 9:43 AM, SIr Pep said:

K on the first one, the voices really don't fit all that much. I really like the middle where you have the drums, and you get the feel of a marching army.
Second one is the same. You really captured the beat well in the middle, but you did the same thing with the bell which you could either tone down, or make it a more bass sound.
There's also something not quite perfect about the start and the end of the second one.... Don't quite know what...

Thanks for the feedback! The get what you're saying about the voices and the metal clanging sound. I'll work on making it all sound smoother/more realistic.

On 1/17/2019 at 9:43 AM, SIr Pep said:

Also I love that you made and AOEII Mod. I was gonna make a MOBA one too one day awesome stuff!

Haha yeah! It's actually a project my brother and some other people have been working on for years. I just joined recently to provide music  They've done an impressive amount of work on gameplay mechanics and graphics overhaul.

On 1/17/2019 at 11:55 AM, nsmadsen said:

Main Theme - I liked the opening but by 47 seconds in, I was ready for a different, more distinct texture. I can hear the trading off, cycling and even doubling of parts between the voices and the strings but they just kind of meander around. It also doesn't help that the vocal patch is very synthy sounding and is all composed of the same vowel shape. 

 

Thanks for the detailed feedback, Nate! You gave me a lot to consider for revisions and future projects. I have played around with the LABS choir and I agree it sounds beautiful. On this track I used Soundiron Elements which I think has the potential to sound good, but I probably am using it like a bit of a noob lol

On 1/17/2019 at 11:55 AM, nsmadsen said:

 Quick point on Lands of Shadow - your drums are distracting here. It's not enhancing but rather subtracting from the experience. I would work on the mix between your percussion and your other instruments. And be careful of things that repeat for too long and are higher pitch (i.e. 3:04). That can get REALLY annoying, really fast. Try and look for ways to create tension and progression without being so repetitive. Try things like changing to other instrument sections, changing textures, etc. This track, in my opinion, is way too repetitive to be effective, honestly. 

 

Ok thanks for the pointers. I will look into trying to work these suggestions into future versions.

On 1/19/2019 at 4:59 PM, Alec Weesner said:

I think to fix the voices in the first track, try playing them in legato or extend the release just a bit more so the transitions between the notes sound a bit more smoother. I also think the timpani is too loud, so I might tune that down.

 

Ok that makes a lot of sense! I think that will really help it sound more realistic

On 1/19/2019 at 4:59 PM, Alec Weesner said:

At 1:41, watch for muddiness. It begins to sound unclear due to build-up of low end. To fix this muddiness, use a high-pass on your higher frequency instruments and also make sure to only include a couple or fewer low end instruments at one time.

As a last tip, use the fundamentals of orchestra volume placement. There are usually three placements; the foreground (where the melody lies), the middle ground, and the background. Place a section of the orchestra in each of these three slots and adjust the volumes accordingly.

Thank you, this is really good feedback! Are there any particular placement strategies you would recommend or does it really differ on the needs of each piece?

On 1/19/2019 at 4:59 PM, Alec Weesner said:

I really like the melodic and harmonic construction of your songs though. They are very interesting to listen to and seem to take inspiration from a variety of different sources, not just the Lord of the Rings films or LOTRO.

 

Thank you very much  I really appreciate the kind words  

For strategies on cleaning up muddiness. The first fix would be to reduce the number of low-end instruments you have. If that's not possible, then EQ is your next bet. Use EQ to remove unnecessary low-frequencies in your non-low-end instruments. You will be surprised how many of your instruments have a build-up of energy down low.

If that still doesn't fix the issue, try panning some of your instruments to the side (not the bass though). Finally, try and limit the amount of reverb the low-end instruments receive. This is why it is unwise to slap a reverb on the master. Always adjust how each instrument receives reverb.

Hope I helped you!

On 1/20/2019 at 6:25 PM, Alec Weesner said:

For strategies on cleaning up muddiness. The first fix would be to reduce the number of low-end instruments you have. If that's not possible, then EQ is your next bet. Use EQ to remove unnecessary low-frequencies in your non-low-end instruments. You will be surprised how many of your instruments have a build-up of energy down low.

If that still doesn't fix the issue, try panning some of your instruments to the side (not the bass though). Finally, try and limit the amount of reverb the low-end instruments receive. This is why it is unwise to slap a reverb on the master. Always adjust how each instrument receives reverb.

Hope I helped you!

Thanks that helps a lot! I'm still wrapping my head around a lot of these concepts so the direction is much appreciated. I've gotten a bit better at using reverb (I used to apply it to the master like you warned against haha) but I haven't made use of EQ much before. I'm going to try to implement your suggestions

Pretty cool. The composition creates a great atmosphere which I'm sure is the one you're looking for, based on your inspirations.
Regarding the realism, won't lie the voices are kinda distracting (legatto would make it 200% better) also I feel the instruments are lacking on dynamics, mainly strings and brass.

Still, most of the problem are EQ-related. When you get the room right (and reverb on each track) I believe it'll improve a lot your track.

Great work tho. ?

On 1/24/2019 at 3:34 PM, rafabou said:

Pretty cool. The composition creates a great atmosphere which I'm sure is the one you're looking for, based on your inspirations.
Regarding the realism, won't lie the voices are kinda distracting (legatto would make it 200% better) also I feel the instruments are lacking on dynamics, mainly strings and brass.

Still, most of the problem are EQ-related. When you get the room right (and reverb on each track) I believe it'll improve a lot your track.

Great work tho. ?

Hey, thanks for the feedback! I'm definitely cracking down on using more legato in the voices and I'm finally coming to grips with EQ more. I get what you're saying about the dynamics too. That's something I'm really going to try to master with my next pieces. Thanks again!