Honest question about C++ vs C#

Caleb Child · 2017-05-31T02:08:16

So I have been thinking about trying to build my own game from scratch (I don't know how far I will go but I want to at least try) and the first issue i have to figure out is what language I should code it in. Now back in the day I recall being told that for making a video game C++ was really the way to go, and while C# may be easier to approach, it doesn't have the same power that would be necessary if you were trying to get the most out of your game. And while whoever told me that probably wasn't a programmer, I basically just took that as it is. After all, video games are pretty much the most complicated things that programming is ever used for; we're trying to create an entire virtual world that needs to play out in real time and update 60 times a second, it gets pretty complicated. So it wouldn't surprise me if the wrong choice of language might cost a game a few extra frames at a critical moment, or push the memory requirements just enough to cause noticeable problems. But now it is a few years later, and while I still am pretty amateur when it comes to programming, I understand some things a lot better than I used to. And now as I look at the situation, I honestly question what I was told before. How much does it really matter what language we program a game in? I mean for the most part "what language it is in" doesn't even exist once the code is compiled, and how efficiently a program runs is going to come down far more to how it was written more than anything else. A few bad practices in the writing can tank the experience far more than a language choice ever could. And on top of that, there are some noticeable examples of games that were written in other languages. Minecraft was written in Java, for Pete's sake, and while the visuals may seem outdated, it still is an engine that has to track an immense and dynamic world. And sure, something like Unreal Engine is written in C++, but that engine holds ties back to before C# was created. So I'm honestly wondering - not only if it really makes a difference if you create a game/engine in C++ versus C# - but how it would make a difference, why C++ would be a better choice than C#. What kind of differences could someone really expect to see? I've been learning how to write in C# and so it has become comfortable to me. I look at samples of C++ and it looks like I'd have to do more than just get used to a few nuances. So I find myself leaning toward wanting to write my code in C# just to make it easier on me. And since "What kind of game are you making" is sure to come up (and probably be reasonably relevant) I guess I'll say, well, on the far end of the spectrum I would like to build a functional 3D engine along with some editing tools. Realistically I'd have something that intentionally is designed to look like an older game, but I still want something that runs efficiently. I hate the idea of having a simple game that takes up more resources than it should. If I were to style a game to look like something from an old era, I'd like my game to be able to run on an old computer. (Even if not "period accurate" I'd still want something that was close.)

For Beginners

Started by Marscaleb May 23, 2017 04:40 AM

11 comments, last by Nypyren 7 years, 6 months ago

kop0113

2,466

May 29, 2017 09:56 PM

My biggest interest is in the lifespan of software and I simply cannot see C# providing here in place of C++. For a start, Microsoft has already started doing weird things with .NET Core and in my opinion not handling the *important* legacy baggage of the language gracefully at all. Try compiling a .NET 1.1 program using the latest implementation of .NET and you will likely encounter problems.

Also, a game engine needs to access the operating system (you cannot avoid this). As such you will need to access C or C++ libraries. My solution is to just use C or C++ then and get on with my work. However if you choose something like Java or C#, you will need bindings. This is glue between the native code and your .NET or Java virtual machine. Bindings are always terribly maintained and unless you write your own, you will be at the whims of these bindings.

We have all heard of the saying "make games, not engines" but going one step further I would say "make engines, not binding layers". And that for the most part means that C++ is the absolute best choice.

However, if you just want to make a game, have fun and maybe make a bit of money then move on. You cannot beat products like Unity. In which case just learn whatever [great|terrible] language they enforce on you and get to work! :)

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Mutiny - Open-source C++ Unity re-implementation.
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Dr_Asik

183

May 30, 2017 05:12 PM

My biggest interest is in the lifespan of software and I simply cannot see C# providing here in place of C++. For a start, Microsoft has already started doing weird things with .NET Core and in my opinion not handling the *important* legacy baggage of the language gracefully at all. Try compiling a .NET 1.1 program using the latest implementation of .NET and you will likely encounter problems.

Also, a game engine needs to access the operating system (you cannot avoid this). As such you will need to access C or C++ libraries. My solution is to just use C or C++ then and get on with my work. However if you choose something like Java or C#, you will need bindings. This is glue between the native code and your .NET or Java virtual machine. Bindings are always terribly maintained and unless you write your own, you will be at the whims of these bindings.

Microsoft is pouring a lot more money into .NET than C++, and you will have a lot more trouble compiling that legacy Visual C++ 6.0 application in the latest VS than the C# 1.0 application, that's for sure.

C# doesn't technically need bindings to call OS functions, you just import them with P/Invoke and it's well documented how to do so for just about any function you might want. See e.g. http://www.pinvoke.net/ I have worked on various large-scale Windows software in .NET for many years and this is not an issue whatsoever.

Speaking of bindings, C# has such great bindings for Direct3D that I'd much rather use the bindings than the actual API!

Nypyren

12,313

May 31, 2017 02:08 AM

My biggest interest is in the lifespan of software and I simply cannot see C# providing here in place of C++. For a start, Microsoft has already started doing weird things with .NET Core and in my opinion not handling the *important* legacy baggage of the language gracefully at all. Try compiling a .NET 1.1 program using the latest implementation of .NET and you will likely encounter problems.

There have definitely been some serious pain points between the fragmented .Net implementations. I worked on a Windows Phone 8 and Windows 8 port of a Unity mobile game and it was a major pain handling the three different sets of class libraries (Mono, WP8, "Metro" at the time).

Microsoft appears to have gotten sufficient feedback and has started a project called ".Net Standard" which will serve as a baseline for ALL .Net implementations. Ideally, this means that when I write a DLL for .Net Standard 2.0, I will be able to load that DLL in the next versions of Mono, .Net Framework, .Net Core, and Universal Windows Platform instead of the current hassles. It SEEMS like this will actually solve the problem the *right* way, but I'm crossing my fingers that the implementations actually function properly once they sort out the bugs, since I have already had trouble with .Net Standard 1.1 compatibility with UWP and .Net Framework.

Honest question about C++ vs C#

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Honest question about C++ vs C#

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