Any scene or scenario takes you to the edge of your seat and has you constantly doubting whether or not you'll be able to stay on that seat is, IMO, epic.

i'd say that's more like "exciting" or "engrossing", rather than epic.

a slasher flick can keep you on the edge of your seat, but its not necessarily epic.

So does that mean, the 'essence' of an epic quest is a longer bigger tougher quest?

longer - more "grand scale" - and/or tougher.

those might be the core elements right there.

are there any others?

are all required, or will one or two suffice?

a boss battle is tough, but not necessarily epic.

i suppose a sufficiently long quest could be epic just due to it extreme length. OTOH, "collect 100,000 skeever tails" is long, but probably not what one might call epic.

"grand scale" seems to be special. most epic quests seem to have that element.

if it was easy, not tough, it probably wouldn't be epic, so tough is probably a requirement.

a hard short quest not on grand scale would just be a hard quest.

hard, short, and grand scale = mini-epic? and hard, long, and grand scale = epic?

and easy = non-epic ? and not grand scale = non-epic? even if its hard and long, if its not grand scale, its just a long hard quest?

i guess list the possible combos of easy/hard, grand scale/not grand scale, and long/short. which ones come out epic?

just hard, grand scale, and long or short? or just hard, grand scale, and long?

easy, grand scale, short - looks like anything easy is non-epic.

hard, grand scale, short - a short epic quest?

hard, grand scale, long - pretty epic i'd say.

hard, not grand scale, short - a hard quest

hard, not grand scale, long - a long hard quest. perhaps epic? i'm having trouble coming up with an example. what kind of quest could you do in skyrim that was long and hard but not grand scale? gather 20 enchanted honed ancient nord weapons? (typically carried only by drauger death lords and such). long? yes. hard? yes. epic? i'm not so sure. its basically just a bunch of normal boss battles.

Any scene or scenario takes you to the edge of your seat and has you constantly doubting whether or not you'll be able to stay on that seat is, IMO, epic.

i'd say that's more like "exciting" or "engrossing", rather than epic.

Something that's epic would be exciting or engrossing.

a slasher flick can keep you on the edge of your seat, but its not necessarily epic.

Fair point. But let me ask you this, if the flick keeps you on the edge of your seat and it's just engrossing or exciting, then what does it have to do to be epic?

What makes a man immortal? - I believe it started with Epos of Gilgamesh, he seeked immortality, but found out that man achieves immortality through his (good) deeds and the immortality is in the minds of those who remember him, in the end - actually he was named the guardian of the underworld at the end of the work.

Also I believe epic is the form of writing that goes also by prose, contrary to lyrics which is poetry. Epos of Gilgamesh is part poetry, part prose, I think. It was repeated over generations in the past so it differs.

Ghh, why are things never clear...

An epic is a poem or prose, normally from antiquity, that details the adventures of a person or group of people.

But I don't think that's the type of 'epic' Norman is going for. Or is it?

what makes a quest epic?

In my mind an Epic quest is more than epic loot, or the length it takes to complete, but the level of connection to the story.

Something that's epic would be exciting or engrossing

most likely true. but the converse isn't necessarily true, IE just cause a slasher flick is engrossing, doesn't necessarily mean its epic.

Fair point. But let me ask you this, if the flick keeps you on the edge of your seat and it's just engrossing or exciting, then what does it have to do to be epic?

a good question!

would long / hard / grand scale make it epic?

ok, a 4 hour long freddie flick, or pick your favorite horror flick. that doesn't seem epic to me, just long.

hard - hmm, in a movie... the badguys are really tough to beat? like jason from friday the 13th or michael myers from halloween. how many times in how many movies did they kill those guys?

so far we have a long slasher movie with a nasty hard to kill badguy.

ok, add "grand scale"... uh.... they can summon demons or the devil himself or something? and instead of stalking teenagers in midwest towns they stalk... national leaders in a bid to take over the world? so now you have freddy able to summon the devil and friends, and he's trying to take over the world. and its so long they made it trilogy, or a mini-series, if made-for-tv. that's starting to sound sort of epic. perhaps contrived, and probably wouldn't make the best movie ever.... freddy's been done to death.

if you could kill freddy by pouring water on him it would be no challenge. so the badguy would have to be hard to kill. and without the sumoon demons to conquer the world, its just a long slasher flick. so it would have to be grand scale. but it might be doable in a longish single movie, as opposed to a trilogy or whatever. so "long" or at least "really really long" might not be a requirement.

In my mind an Epic quest is more than epic loot, or the length it takes to complete, but the level of connection to the story.

what about games that are not story driven, where the player's actions create the story? they can still have epic quests in them. IE hard long grand scale quests (or whatever makes a quest "epic").

it would seem that the definition of an "epic quest" in games is in the eye of the beholder.

but it would also seem that certain qualities like long, hard, and grand scale, are common to many people's definition of an epic quest in a game.

today i finished a quest in skyrim that could be considered epic. the aetherium forge quest line. it was long: find 5 locations, clean out 4 dungeons, fetch 4 items. it was hard: 4 dungeons, 3 boss battles, one super boss battle. and it was sort of grand scale: unique bosses, lots of high level drauger (my character is about 45th level), and a unique magic item at the end.

nice to have things included a good backstory, extensive dialog with voice over, and some settings on a grand scale (such as the forge) - IE impressive looking locations. the director john ford, famous for epic westerns used monument valley for many of his films. and cecil b demille, famous for his epic films, often used extremely large and lavish sets with hundreds or thousands of extras.

the main quest line in skyrim could also be considered epic. its long, hard, and rather grand scale, what with elder scrolls, travelling to soverngard, and stopping alduin from destroying the world, and all that jazz.

Big and/or long or/and hard. Three easy words to remember. These are the qualities of an epic quest.

Big = Spread out and thus likely watered down. (a negative in my book)
Long = Long is only good if it is enjoyable. If it's boring, long is terrible. Length of a quest doesn't determine it's quality to me.
Hard = Good, but only if it gets overcome. Players need to beat it to enjoy it (otherwise they get annoyed at it), but they need to feel like they just barely overcame the challenge, and it needs to press them hard, to be exhilarating.



For me, first I'd first set aside the word 'epic', and use words that more accurately get to the heart of what I want.

For me, that'd make the question become: what makes an enjoyable, engaging, and immersive quest?

Enjoyable = Challenging - the player overcomes, but barely. I want the player to feel like it's up in the air whether he'll survive, but finally manages to pull through. The player can even be exhausted and relieved when he finishes - I think exhaustion when finished is a plus, if met with relief and safety and refreshment.
It needs to be long enough to exhaust the player, but not so long that it is just tedious.
It also needs to not be too repetitive, but stay fresh enough in each aspect of the gameplay (audio, visuals, level design, and enemy type encounters) to not feel like you're doing the same thing over and over.

Engaging = Gameplay-focused, with some choices and agency, a feeling of actually making an impact in the world can be a plus, and challenging also helps here.
Immersive = Atmosphere from areas, soundscape, music, visuals, world lore, and the story of the quest.

I've played some games where even simple dungeons are this great.
(one memorable one from my childhood is Cull Hazard Cave from Quest 64)