What actually would help me is improving my compositional skills. Trying to get a "live orchestra" sound from a library that's not capable; doesn't help me improve.

Young - the point many of us have been making is that these days composers have to also be:

- an arranger

- a producer

- a mixer

- a mastering engineer

I always encourage learning more composing skills! Great idea! I also urge you to get better at making arrangements. These two things will help you when it comes to mixing and mastering your productions. You also need to get better at producing MIDI data for more of a performance in your renders.

To be truthful, I never stated his feedback was invalid. I'm being realistic.

Actually, you're being argumentative. When folks, with more experience and credentials, are trying to help steer you in the right direction(s) that worked for them and are only meant with rebuttals it feels (and seems) like you're just dismissing that advice. I've seen several folks I admire and respect, who are making good music, reach out to you with ideas and suggestions - only to have you rebuke those tips. And that's really too bad.

You asked what is the difference my music and other music using virtual instruments? Mainly the samples. Those other songs using virtual instruments have more realistic samples.

Sorry but you're wrong. And for you to make this comment shows that, despite repeatedly trying to explain and give you ideas for how your productions are lacking, you're just not getting it.

Without something like Hollywood Strings or LASS; I'll almost always get "This or that sounds fake".

Sorry to bust your bubble but I have LASS and Hollywood Strings and they can sound extremely fake without the right production.

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse with this discussion, honestly. I've made many various suggestions to you over the many different threads in the forum. I do appreciate you trying EWQLSO but truly feel you haven't really dug deep enough into the program.

Here's a suite of symphonic works I made using EWQLSO as my main sound palette. Not saying it's perfect. In fact, listening again four years later, I can hear tons of production things I wish I would've done differently. Done better. But the music can be impactful. I've been told as much by many folks. Not trying to toot my own horn (pun intended) but my point is we've shown you many times how less-than-realistic sample libraries can still produce great sounding, impactful music.

http://madsenstudios.bandcamp.com/album/along-this-path

I do wish you the best but am getting frustrated that you don't receive feedback better, honestly. I've said my bit and will leave it at that.

Thanks,

Nate

I'm not being argumentative. I just simply won't reply to feedback. The one giving feedback is always right and I'm always wrong. So I simply won't bother replying to feedback I don't 100% agree with or I'll be accused of being "argumentative".

LASS can sound fake. But since it most likely responds to CC11 realistically, has more realistic legato and has more articulations; it probably won't.

I listened to your suite. The songs do sound good; but I don't hear any super realistic string melodies.

But we're getting nowhere with this. When I say using CC11 doesn't sound realistic and you just tell me I'm wrong, that is not helpful. Nor is telling me that I'm wrong when I say the velocities have drastically different volumes helpful. Both of those things are true.

Rather than telling me I'm wrong, what would be more helpful is telling me how to make CC11 sound realistic.

At the end of the day it comes down to "will this feedback help me improve" and none of this feedback has really helped me improve.

At the end of the day, the guy giving feedback is always right and I'm always wrong. Rather than help me; this conversation has been reduced to I'm right and you're wrong.So continuing this discussion isn't going to help anyone.

At the end of the day, the guy giving feedback is always right and I'm always wrong.

Young - I'm sorry you feel this discussion has been reduced down to a "I'm right and you're wrong" thread. I, among others, have tried to offer kudos on things that have gone well and the changes you've made. We've also tried to make suggestions to help your work grow. These suggestions are our feedback and input. Offering critiques and feedback on audio is often subjective. This is human nature.

If you feel that none of this discussion has been helpful to you, well frankly, that's your issue. I've worked in the game industry for nearly 12 years now and often have to work with clients and/or audio directors to help make my content be on target. Sometimes the feedback I'm given is extremely blunt and sometimes it's extremely vague. It's always been my job to try and make that feedback help me reach the client's (or my boss's) goal.

You seem to be taking these threads as a personal attack when it's not meant that way. No one is insulting you or your work. No one is attacking you here. At points we are being critical (mainly of how you receive or respond to feedback). All of us have given you compliments along with suggestions or ideas of how we think your work could be better. It's up to you to use or throw out those suggestions. This can be easier said than done, sometimes. :P

TL;DR: We ARE trying to help you. We've been repeatedly showing you, in numerous threads, approaches and ideas to help you grow as a composer. Learning how to take criticism well and apply the criticism that will help you grow (because not all of it will) is a vital skill that will help you work with others. When you post your music on a forum and say "feedback is welcomed" you should expect both positive and negative remarks.

Nor is telling me that I'm wrong when I say the velocities have drastically different volumes helpful. Both of those things are true.

I would show you a simple test and take the same, repeated note and set each velocity to increments of ten to show how the the velocity level changes the attack and timbre of a note but my studio is completely packed up and ready for a multi-state move to a new audio job. Maybe you could try this out on your end?

And a tip - sometimes combining volume automation and velocity settings can really make for some nice effects. For example, I would often do low timpani velocity settings and crank the volume up. This would give a nice, subtle attack and presence without a bombastic timpani sound. Have you tried things like this?

One more tip - often we have to write our pieces to what works best in the sample libraries. You seem to be doing the opposite. That's not a bad things but just know that it sets you up for a battle. As your knowledge of the EWQLSO sample library grows, you'll know what that library does well and what it does poorly. For example, I HATE the trumpet sounds in much (but not all) of EWQLSO. I just think they sound horrible. So I avoid them in that library and/or use other libraries that do trumpet sounds better IMO.

Again, I don't think anyone is questioning your skills as a composer. But we are saying you could improve your skills in other arenas - especially production. This would help your pieces!

Thanks,

Nate

I'm not trying to be right or wrong, just trying to give some point that could help you with the production. As I said, your music is nice but the production could be better.

So, did you or did you not try the keyswitches?

BTW here's a piece I've made with the reallyreally old version of EWQLSO. I don't know if the samples were different or not but the UI was not Play back then:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6wwa31mov2ffe56/Wedding%20strings.mp3?dl=0

It's only strings so you'll hear the melodies. It's not perfect at all but I feel that at least some of the melodies are quite realistic.

Now as I listen to it I would produce some of the backings differently nowadays but I still like most of the melodies. It was one of the first string pieces I did with EWQLSO and I remember it was really hard work to tweak all the CC, velocities, key switches, different samples etc. Oh and of course the timings. Most often you have to start the next sample just a bit early so the attack will cross nicely with the release. It took days and days but I learned so much.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

One last point is that people hear realism quite differently. Someone might think that this or that piece of music isn't realistically done with this or that sample library and someone else listens to a real orchestra piece and says it isn't realistic... Mostly it all comes down to production and orchestration.