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Why are there so few 'high quality' 2D MMORPGs?

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17 comments, last by ericrrichards22 7 years, 9 months ago

I cannot fathom how you could turn a side-scrolling game into an MMO game.

Remember that MMO has a meaning. It was a term for games with an enormous online population, these days meaning about 100,000 concurrent people.

While a lot of kids playing with their toy systems will call any game that plays online an MMO, that is not what the term was referring to. Richard Garriott used the term to refer to the type of architecture required for the modern sprawling high-player games with hundreds of thousands of active players. These systems are far beyond a dedicated system, far beyond something a moderately large team can generate. They are truly a massive undertaking, costing several tens of millions of dollars annually in infrastructure alone. The infrastructure and day-to-day operations costs more than the development cost for most games.

I know many youth these days equate "MMO" with "persistent online world", but they are radically different. People can (and do) build a persistent online world infrastructure in a few hours. The networking forum FAQ has one written and and playable in under a week. Persistent online world, but a maximum player capacity of perhaps a hundred or two simultaneous players.

These days they have a notation of the number of concurrent players. Five thousand concurrent players, a C5K system is achievable with simple architecture and isn't massively multiplayer. Ten thousand (C10K) or fifty thousand (C50K) is achievable on a budget of ten or twenty million dollars, and you could probably host that with Amazon or Google or similar architecture that scales dynamically, you could reasonably handle that with a cluster of 10 or 20 servers pretty handily. But even that isn't massively multiplayer, that's still just a regular online world. When you reach larger scales, C100K, C250K, that is reaching a massive architecture. A quarter million concurrent players means an enormous infrastructure spread across the globe.

I cannot fathom tens of thousands of people, or even thousands of people, in a side scroller simultaneously.

I can imagine such a system with hundreds of simultaneous people, but that is painful in my mind

Maybe you've got a design that is different from the side scroller style I picture.

So if you want to build an online multiplayer side scroller world, that certainly is achievable. But I cannot fathom an MMO side scroller no matter how I try. The "massive" modifier is a big thing.

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Funnily enough, World of Warcraft is one of the least 'massive' games by some definitions, since each individual server traditionally held quite a small number of people, with quite primitive hand-offs between them. Fewer than a thousand at one point, though that information may well be out of date now.

Yes, each realm has its own capacity. During WoW's peak most Realms (the individual clusters of the game) had between 8000 to 15000 people. Transferring characters between realms took a request, a fee, and about three days. As they've declined Realms needed to be merged.

This stands in contrast to many other online worlds with shared worlds, with the opposite extreme of EVE Online being one single shared game with everybody.

Collectively WoW's infrastructure peaked at about 12 million subscribers, with over a million connected at any given time on servers and realms scattered around the globe. Even though Realms were isolated, the infrastructure is still quite significant.

Funnily enough, World of Warcraft is one of the least 'massive' games by some definitions, since each individual server traditionally held quite a small number of people, with quite primitive hand-offs between them. Fewer than a thousand at one point, though that information may well be out of date now.

Yes, each realm has its own capacity. During WoW's peak most Realms (the individual clusters of the game) had between 8000 to 15000 people. Transferring characters between realms took a request, a fee, and about three days. As they've declined Realms needed to be merged.

This stands in contrast to many other online worlds with shared worlds, with the opposite extreme of EVE Online being one single shared game with everybody.

Collectively WoW's infrastructure peaked at about 12 million subscribers, with over a million connected at any given time on servers and realms scattered around the globe. Even though Realms were isolated, the infrastructure is still quite significant.

I wonder how many physical servers are actually used to run a single shard? Obviously instances could be "trivially" run on different machines, but it seemed like back when I played the game that there were zones in a contiguous world separated by sparsely populated areas. Good candidates for separating server responsibilities.

Developer journal: Multiplayer RPG dev diary

If I remember correctly - and it's been a long time, so don't quote me on this - each realm is split into continents, and each continent was covered by a small number of servers each covering a geographically contiguous area (possibly one zone, possibly several). When moving from one zone to another (or at least a zone on a different server), there would be a server hand-off where you connect to the new one and disconnect from the old. As such, each server might only be handling a few hundred players - possibly even fewer once the instanced dungeon stuff came in.

Possibly since "high quality" 2D is often developed as 3D animations and then canned down to 2D --- that at that point unless you are targetting old handheld/.smartphone the game might as well be 3D.

Oldschool platformer style with quite limited movement options .... AS A MMO ??? - does it really work all that well

s compared to 2.5D like Ultima Online where movements and interactions were generally 360 2D.

It might as well mostly be Solo play except with social interactions

--------------------------------------------[size="1"]Ratings are Opinion, not Fact
Hmm, I have my misgivings about trying to find an MMO replication. We could ask why we don't have another WoW too, looking at the list of under performing and disappointing attempts, it's somewhat evident that doing another of something successful isn't really effective.

MMOs exist in a kind of elimination environment, unless the appeal and opportunity exist to surpass it's predecessors, it's likely a poor investment.

I cannot fathom tens of thousands of people, or even thousands of people, in a side scroller simultaneously.


I can imagine some quite enjoyable 2D worlds that would be fun with hundreds of thousands of players. I've seen plenty of side-scrolling games that use both X and Y axis; Metroid, Mario 2, Terraria. You don't necessarily have to limit yourself to left-to-right scrolling. You just need a reasonable plan for putting that many players in a 2D world.

As long as there is lots of content, and the team doesn't bite off any features that would be catastrophic in an MMO (such as Terraria/Starbound destructible terrain), I don't particularly see any particular reason why side-scrolling would conflict with MMO-ness.


That said, having teams that can't handle real MMO production is an entirely different deal and "simplifying" a game by using side scrolling gameplay instead of 3D gameplay doesn't change any of that.

Actually considering the increase in screen pixel size (and the memory for images/animations and rendering speed/tricks and program logic size) even for palmtops/smartphones over those ancient games, it could offer quite a bit more complex game situations (and pretty/amusing effects). with multiple players there 'could be' an interaction richness beyond what you got as a solo player.

--------------------------------------------[size="1"]Ratings are Opinion, not Fact

I've always thought that if Nintendo built an MMO version of Pokemon (real Pokemon, not Pokemon Go), they'd break the bank. They had the grindy addiction curve down before WOW, and even the GBA-era 2D art would be fine on iOS or Android.

Eric Richards

SlimDX tutorials - http://www.richardssoftware.net/

Twitter - @EricRichards22

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