To all the proffesionals at Videogame programming :D

So i was about to writte a reaaaaally long post, but lets make it shorter:

The summer before I start highschool i learned c++ programming on my own. When i start hisghschool, the first computer-lab-class the teacher told us we where going to learn c++ programming through the year. I was really exited.

But in one year we only learned the really basics, actually just printing messages and small operations. I was disappointed. And by the way im really good at math (final grade: 9.1 out of 10).

In my first year in highschool i was the only one who get 10 as final grade on computer class while the rest of my classmates struggle to literally open codeblocks.

I learned more in 1 month on my pc than 1 year on highschool. And i actually want to dedicate my life to programming

I already get tired of chemistry books, history books, universal literature and so. I want to leave that and already dedicate my whole time to game programming, but i have to study and i cant practice programming as much as i want to.

I was thinking in leaving school, and then read books, forums and take classes of digital arts online, with books and forums like this, with the internet maybe i can learn more, and learn what i really want to, what is going to actually be useful in my future.

So yeah, the question is:

Whats more important when looking for a job? experience and knowledge or a degree at some career? even without any experience.

I mean, if you are looking for someone, 2 guys apply, and the first guy says

"I have i degree at whatever you need, BUT i have never worked in a company before",

and then the second guys tells you

"Im really good at whatever you need, look some of my works *shows experience*. I also have laboral experience and so. BUT i dont have a degree at anything."

Which one would you hire? And also whats your recomendation for me? someone who wants to learn Digital Arts in general and is not sure about his life decisions. I love everything, from prgramming to drawing concept art and stuff like that. I´d also like to learn web design, photography, android programming, voice acting... well, Digital Arts.

Thanks, and have an excellent week.

fal

In general, walking the walk trumps talking the talk :) So when comparing two candidates, the one who can prove they can actually do the job is in a better position.

...but often there's not two candidates, but two hundred candidates. That's a lot of resumes to read and interviews to conducts... so companies often use shortcuts. One common shortcut is to filter by arbitrary achievements -- e.g. throwing out all candidates who didn't finish high school, and then all candidates who don't have a university degree, etc...

If it's an option, practice your skills as much as you can in your spare time, and stay in school to get those arbitrary certificates as long as you can.

If you're in a country with a public / affordable university system (e.g. not america) then I'd especially recommend getting a degree.

Besides the learning that you'll do, university teaches some life skills, and the important skill of sticking through something that you don't really want to be doing for 4 years :lol:

It can also be important if you want to work in other countries. Often, to get a "skilled worker" visa/permit, you need a tertiary degree to prove it.

Am I reading correctly that you are considering dropping out of HS? I would suggest against that if only for the math classes. But I think a HS diploma is important as well, AFAIK.

If you stay around for it, you'll find that universities give more of a rats ass about teaching relevant content than schools, and those that are there want to be there and want to excel. You'll find more challenging content there and will likely enjoy it more.

Part of the challenge of university and further education in general is the fact that it's completely self motivated. The lecturer gives base reading material and leaves you to your own devices "coursework due next week, exam in three months". Reading more and learning more in your own time just helps.

Do what Hodgman says and prepare for university being an eye opener for you in a good way.

You're on the right track but don't quit school as it would make it very hard to get into uni in most countries.

Out of curiosity what country do you live in?

To all the proffesionals at Videogame programming :D...
So i was about to writte a reaaaaally long post, but lets make it shorter:...
Whats more important when looking for a job? experience and knowledge or a degree at some career? even without any experience.
I mean, if you are looking for someone, 2 guys apply, and the first guy says
"I have i degree at whatever you need, BUT i have never worked in a company before",
and then the second guys tells you
"Im really good at whatever you need, look some of my works *shows experience*. I also have laboral experience and so. BUT i dont have a degree at anything."
Which one would you hire? And also whats your recomendation for me? someone who wants to learn Digital Arts in general and is not sure about his life decisions. I love everything, from prgramming to drawing concept art and stuff like that. I´d also like to learn web design, photography, android programming, voice acting... well, Digital Arts.

I would prefer a graduate with a degree and a reasonable portfolio over a dropout with a reasonable portfolio, if neither of them has professional experience that rises to the level of what I call professional experience.
My recommendation for you is to get a degree and keep building your portfolio. But depending on what part of the world you live in, you might not need a degree.
Your post has been moved to the Game Industry Job Advice board. You should read this forum's FAQs
http://www.gamedev.net/page/reference/faq.php/_/breaking-into-the-industry-r16

I started teaching myself game programming (and programming in general) from grade school (age 6) through high school (age 18). Then I went to college for a 4-year Software Engineering degree. After graduating I worked at a couple of non-game programming jobs as well as a couple of non-programming-at-all jobs. After a couple years of looking, I finally got a game development job. I've been working for my current employer for a bit over a decade.

I've helped interview a few potential employees as well. Degree and Experience are both good, but we'll try to determine your skill and team fit regardless. Resumes are used as early filters to decide who to actually interview.

You get bonus points if:

- On resume or during an interview, you're already familiar with some of the technology (engines, languages, etc) that we use.
- During an interview, you're friendly and seem like you can get along with other people on a team.
- During an interview, you can discuss problems "gracefully": considerations you made, why you prefer a particular solution, what possible pros/cons there are to alternatives, etc.
- On resume or during and interview, you demonstrate your dedication; your motivation to work on tasks, even if they are boring.


Dropping out of high school would be a warning sign to me that you don't have the motivation to work on things that don't interest you. Programming professionally is pretty boring for most of the time. When other people are paying you, it's almost always because you're doing things THEY want, instead of things YOU want.

Out of curiosity what country do you live in?

México :)

I have no idea about your location in the world. Perhaps in your city university education is not a necessity. Perhaps in your region few people finish their primary education. But in that case, it means people in your area are not technically advanced.

When I review applications -- which I do frequently -- nearly every person has at least a bachelors degree. Some have links to a portfolio, many list their hobby projects.

You do not compete in a vacuum. If there are other people who look better on paper or on the job application your portfolio will never be looked at.

There are some people in the forum who live in regions where formal education is less important, or who did not get college degrees. If you happen to live in one of those places where college or university studies are not required you should still finish your regular school education.

I was thinking in leaving school, and then read books, forums and take classes of digital arts online, with books and forums like this, with the internet maybe i can learn more, and learn what i really want to, what is going to actually be useful in my future.

That is a terrible idea. Stay in school. Get the most education you reasonably are able.

Stay in school AND read books AND read forums AND read technical papers. If possible for you in your region, also go to university or college studies.

While you are reading material online and in books, talk to your school teachers and ask them to help explain topics as you encounter them.

Take advantage of the opportunity you have been given.

So far, your attested accomplishments are getting a 91% in math (nothing exceptional), being really bored with classes that are usually very boring at the high school level (but often very fun at a collegiate level), and having more knowledge about something than an introductory class provides (which just means you should be in an AP course!). That's hardly an indication that you're too smart to benefit from a lot more education.

You're not going to learn anything of value about game development in any reasonable amount of time from forums or books. Those of us who initially learned the craft well and competed strongly in the market without prior job experience did so by being immersed in environments with other people with similar interests and passions and building on each others' knowledge and accomplishments while following structured academic exercises. Those places are called "colleges".

Being smart in high school is utterly meaningless. The world is filled with losers who got too big of an ego in HS, dropped out or never went to college, and then got passed up by all the "dumb" kids who stuck with their education. HS lets people be misled into thinking that advanced mediocrity is actually excellence. You have to _work_ for excellent, and breezing through HS because you're a little above the HS-level curriculum is a far cry from being excellent.

Short version: a HS dropout with a crappy personal project or two is garbage next to a college graduate with a crappy class project or two.

IMO you should focus all your efforts on getting into a US university. Long story short, someone without a degree from Mexico is unemployable outside Mexico. (Don't know how it is in the country.) And if you're thinking about leaving high school, you will never work a tech job. It doesn't matter who you are or what you've done. No one will even talk to you.

If someone came to me for a job without a degree, I would point blank ask them: "Why didn't you do the degree?" If it's a challenge with money or an unusual life situation or something, that wouldn't be a major issue for me. But if the answer is that they couldn't be bothered, it felt like a waste of time, etc, I would show that candidate the door. There's no room in a professional setting for someone who won't face up to work because of general lack of interest. I'm also not interested in hiring anyone who doesn't have experience working with other people as a team.

In a broader sense... I worked in the industry for a year without a degree. But that was in the healthy job market of 2007, with three years of a degree done and a clear plan to return. Oh, and years of tinkering with game development, twin professional internships at major companies, deep technical knowledge (for my age), several working projects and open source work, and some article writing work too. Nowadays I'm not sure I could get a job in this market with the background I had then.

P.S. The above applies only to programmers. You need to understand this: artists are 100% unemployable for games without a full four year art degree. End of story. There is NO wiggle room on this one. The industry is literally drowning in talent who have done incredible work alongside their degrees, there's no reason to even entertain candidates who skipped it.