Basically if you put my theory to use, where you construct everything as a framework and use copy/paste hierarchies to make your content... you could take creativity to a whole new level. You could make games with thousands of classes, millions of items.

Again, I think making a game is a matter of "FIGURING OUT" how to put the correct scripts and actors together. I think you can do a lot with just simple rigged materialed 3d models with basic animation clips. And I think anyone who tells you that it would take hundreds of hours to make an MMO is either lying or doesn't know what they're talking about. I truly think the whole world is messed up and that you really can put together an MMO in a few hours. I really think its about compiling graphics/actors/scripts inside of an editor and packaging your game to distribute it and run it in tandem with a server and a website. And I think this all can be done scientifically one step at a time... and thus mathematically very quickly.

I'm not going to immediately close this thread, even though I don't see any evidence so far that this discussion is going to be any more productive than the last one. LouisZ's original account remains unbanned, and he's welcome to participate -- constructively -- in what is left of this thread.

If it gets non-constructive, I'll close it.

I'm not going to immediately close this thread

Some men just want to see the world burn.

Well imagine you are so advanced that you don't make any mistakes... and you have all the knowledge to take the game from step 1, to step 2, to step 3 without retracing your steps and having to learn/figure out a workaround.

Has never happened in the history of engineering, outside of extremely trivial projects.

And I think anyone who tells you that it would take hundreds of hours to make an MMO is either lying or doesn't know what they're talking about.

Sorry, but that is just either blindingly ignorant or staggeringly obnoxious or more likely both. Seriously, why on earth do you think anyone would take you seriously after a statement like that? If it's so easy, why haven't you done it yet?

Subject: How I think game design should work

How I think game design should work is that you first conceptualize your game, second make the framework, third add the content. Meaning create an outline or document detailing every physical feature inside the game. And after the concept is written I think it should be a matter of following some scientific formula to fabricate the framework. And after the framework is made I think you should be able to use template based hierarchies to make limitless amounts of content.

I think it should all be a matter of putting the correct scripts/actors together in well constructed hierarchies... then copy/pasting those hierarchies and modifying them and importing your assets.

...The point I'm trying to make is that when you create the "framework"... it shouldn't take you a long time... it shouldn't even take you a few days. And I think if it takes you any longer than that it means that you are actually LEARNING how to make your game... meaning you are trying to FIGURE SOMETHING OUT... meaning you don't actually know what you are doing.

... I'm not going to change my convictions... and my convictions are basically this: I believe you can build the framework for a fully fledged MMO(with Quests, Instances, Classes, Monsters, Items, Skills, Abilities)... basically a clone of WoW... in any IDE... in a matter of hours just by combining the correct scripts and actors

But you're not talking about game DESIGN. You're talking about game development as a whole. Please don't equate game design with game development; they are not the same thing. Game design is a subset of game development.

Oh hey look, it's this guy again: http://www.gamedev.net/topic/668444-basically-its-either-a-conspiracy-or-a-waste-of-time/
And this time he has a second account as well! Awesome!

Come on folks, read this crap. he's such a damn troll. He also came into chat with this exact same crap. he wants everyone else to do the work, that's it. I wish i had saved the chat log from the other night, the crap he was saying was just absolutely stupid, and he absolutely refuses to change his ways. in short, stop feeding into him.

It was predictable that this thread would attract negative comments and tone. If the tone doesn't lighten up, the thread will have to be closed.

I'm not going to change my convictions... and my convictions are basically this: I believe you can build the framework for a fully fledged MMO(with Quests, Instances, Classes, Monsters, Items, Skills, Abilities)... basically a clone of WoW... in any IDE... in a matter of hours just by combining the correct scripts and actors

This is completely true. The problem is that the only way you can actually get these parts to fit together properly is by either a) limiting the variety of ways in which they can be put together to such an extent that "clone" seems generous or b) having a deep understanding of these parts that can often be best developed by implementing them oneself.

Copying and pasting is boring, but taking things and recombining them in truly original ways is deep and exciting. And also time consuming. If you don't find the time consuming parts exciting, what, really, is your interest in making a game (and a "clone" no less)? To have a game? You can buy those. To make a game? Not if you don't like the, you know, making part.

Find something you like doing (or better yet, something you like practicing in a way that may or may not be predicated on some ultimate and nebulous concept of "success" or "completeness") and you'll probably have a lot more fun.

I'm not going to immediately close this thread

Some men just want to see the world burn.

Chubu is one of them