Deus Ex is probably the closest to a near-perfect system since the player will know more about enemy whereabouts via radar than most games allow. Any "spidey-sense" feeling that occurs is because the character knows more than the player - and that'd just be because the player isn't paying attention enough.

I think that's kind of the key to making the spidey-sense moments believable. The character should know and the interface should tell the player. I had the same thing happen alot in Skyrim. I'm getting hit by something but i'm like "wtf? what's attacking me?" then i check for the little red circle on my compass. It doesn't feel stupid because the character knows what's happening. I assume my character saw or heard something that I didn't.

Skyrim might not be the best example of well-timed battle music though. I don't know how many times epic viking war songs have broken out because mud crabs got angry with me being in their river.

Skyrim might not be the best example of well-timed battle music though. I don't know how many times epic viking war songs have broken out because mud crabs got angry with me being in their river.

or continues to play long after they're dead, until you sheath your weapon. this is the kind of stuff i'm talking about.

if i was modeling when the character became aware of the enemy irregardless of what the human player was doing, then yes it would make sense for the misc to clue the human player in, but i don't do that. its up to the player to spot threats. there is no compass. i do tell them when a new encounter occurs, but i plan to drop than and force the player to simply keep their eyes open, just like it was in the real world.

imagine the music started playing every time the player got near a badguy, and the badguys could hear it the way the human player can. IE when the music starts, it set a flag in the badguy AI of "player nearby" which triggers a search and destroy behavior, as well as notifying all badguys on the level to activate and perform search and destroy. see what an advantage it gives the badguys? along with the simple capability to call their buddies for help?

Deus Ex is probably the closest to a near-perfect system since the player will know more about enemy whereabouts via radar than most games allow

this is a paleolithic simulator, so deus ex is probably not a good example model for this type of game. there's no radar, etc.

while what they do in deus ex might make sense in their game world, it probably wouldn't in this one.

the only thing resembling spidey sense or similar non-real-world capabilities would be auditory cues of nearby unseen threats.

this is a paleolithic simulator, so deus ex is probably not a good example model for this type of game. there's no radar, etc.

Most of your interaction with the game world is visual. Marking hostile locations is good way to simulate other senses. If you're in a forest and your hear a footstep, you don't just freak out and spin around in circles. Your brain can approximate where the sound originated from. Deus has an excuse for having radar, but a lot of games have enemy indicators or radar without excuses.

If you're in a forest and your hear a footstep, you don't just freak out and spin around in circles. Your brain can approximate where the sound originated from.

no directional sound modeling yet unfortunately. that will be the only cue other than visual given the player. no radar, no compass, no enemy indicators, not even crosshairs! if you and i went out in the woods and fought with the available weapons at hand, there wouldn't be any of that BS. its harder, but very cool, and yes, when you get an encounter the first thing you do is look around, cause odds are you're about to get eaten! <g>. until you identify the threat its a true moment of terror - and then sometimes you do identify the threat - and the terror is even worse. its interesting how the game can generate this tension and fear again and again. definitely not for the faint of heart.

@Norman Barrows,

With no crosshairs or compass or "any of that BS", is it safe to assume that the game has no HUD/UI elements whatsoever, in the name of simulation? And in 1st-person perspective?

is it safe to assume that the game has no HUD/UI elements whatsoever, in the name of simulation?

idiot lights only: sleepy, injured/high damage, thirsty, tired/exhausted, hungry, lonely, unhappy, etc. also climb mode and sneak mode idiot lights.

but not in the name of simulation, its simply a cleaner UI. it used to show all the stats like sleep, food, mood, etc like the sims does.

And in 1st-person perspective?

first and 3rd person - toggle at any time. while 1st person only is more realistic, i decided to allow 3rd person play as well. a lot of folks have difficulties with 1st person. mostly with situational awareness, but also sometimes with vertigo issues. the vertigo is probably related to inner ear sensitivity, and whether the brain tends to rely on inner ear or visual cues more for attitude info. for example, i have very sensitive inner ears, so i have problems with rollercoasters and rides that spin you around. but i'll never get space sickness in zero-g, and i'm largely immune to 1pv vertigo effects. in the game the room may be spinning, but my inner ear is not, so it doesn't phase me. for folks who are good with rollercoasters, the opposite will probably tend to be true. they see the room spinning, and their brain says i'm getting dizzy. i've only experienced it one time ever for about 10 seconds myself, and i've been 1pv playing shooters since the original castle wolfenstein 3d.

Ok.So, it's possible that the Player could just be walking through the woods and hear a noise. Nothing they can currently see is making the noise, so they have to look around, which, without directional audio, turns into essentially a 50/50 guessing game (turn left or turn right). If they guess wrong, they die, because it's a paleolithic simulator and sabre cats or wtv the enemies are ain't screwing around.

This will happen every time the Player encounters an enemy that they didn't see first. With a field of view of like 45 degrees that's ~7/8 times, meaning that combat in the game will almost always be -> if you didn't see the enemy first, flip a coin: if you lose the flip, you lose the game.

Would you say that (more or less) is an apt description? If so, is that the feel you're going for?

Also, I'm curious about the term "idiot lights", I've never heard it before. It seems like a weird thing to call those UI elements. It seems to imply that those indicators are for idiots only, but they convey things that they player would otherwise have no way of knowing, like the character's hunger, sleep, happiness, etc., levels. The Player should not be considered any dumber for not knowing how hungry a virtual person is - that'd be weird. Alternatively "idiot lights" could refer to the virtual being, in the same way that a "brake light" isn't a light for brakes, but a light that conveys information about the brake(s). This is strange too, as it is common for the Player to project a portion of themselves onto their digital personae, so I'd be surprised if that's how the term started.

Ok.So, it's possible that the Player could just be walking through the woods and hear a noise. Nothing they can currently see is making the noise, so they have to look around, which, without directional audio, turns into essentially a 50/50 guessing game (turn left or turn right). If they guess wrong, they die, because it's a paleolithic simulator and sabre cats or wtv the enemies are ain't screwing around.

only sort of...

one of the hold overs from original D&D is "check for surprise" when an encounter occurs. so when an encounter occurs you get a message of the form: "<band member name>: you [surprise | encounter | are surprised by ] some [ animals | cavemen ].".

in the case of surprise, you get about 5 seconds before the badguys can do anything.

in the case of being surprised, you can't move for about 5 seconds.

encounters may be hostiles, neutrals or friendlies. no way to tell 'til you get a visual on them.

this is still in there, 'cause you can have multiple band members in different locations, and one you're not controlling may be far away doing some action (gathering wood etc), if they get an encounter, what should happen? notify the player? stop the current action and have the band member AI go into combat mode?

right now, they only stop an action if attacked, not if a threat just comes near. and it tells the player when anyone gets an encounter so they can tab to them (usually using "N" for next idle band member) and take control.

so you get an encounter, and immediately look around to see what it is. four possible results are typical:

1. predators, but not attacking yet.

2. predators or hostile cavemen attacking you or other nearby targets

3. non-hostile animals and cavemen

4. you don't see anything - but _SOMETHING_ is out there!

case #1, you run. sometime they catch you, sometimes they don't, if they do, sometimes you can fight them off, and sometimes you die.

case #2, sometimes you can fight them off, and sometimes you die. like you say, the enemies ain't screwing around! <g>.

case #3, you go on with what you were doing, or interact with cavemen, or go hunting.

case #4, you might decide to move on, just in case. or you might not. a very wait and see situation. sometimes is nothing, sometimes it giant fossas -a giant carnivorous "mongoose" the size of a leopard that can climb trees like a squirrel, head first up and down, and are hard to spot in brush, especially at night.

one interesting thing i've noticed is how well camouflaged critters are just from their natural coloration.

This will happen every time the Player encounters an enemy that they didn't see first. With a field of view of like 45 degrees that's ~7/8 times, meaning that combat in the game will almost always be -> if you didn't see the enemy first, flip a coin: if you lose the flip, you lose the game.

Would you say that (more or less) is an apt description? If so, is that the feel you're going for?

encounter ranges are based on terrain type. so in open terrain such as scrub lands, or savanna, you'll get encounters at ranges on the order of 600 feet (~200m). in the most dense terrain, woods, jungle, rocks, etc, its at least 50-75 feet (~20m). so its not quite as bad as you envision.

between the non-hostile encounters, the check for surprise, and the encounter ranges, you have a fighting chance most of the time. but on occasion you do get jumped by a big cat, a pack of cave hyenas, or a short faced bear. and that's usually an encounter you don't survive. although i just recently survived a short faced bear encounter by maneuvering so non-hostile animals (silvatherium - giant proto-giraffes) were between me and the bears. soon after getting into position (at sprint speed), the bears decided to go hunting. sure enough, they targeted a silvatherium. took it down, and i made my escape while they chowed down! <g>.

i've discovered a new strategy of "safety in numbers". its cool if you have a herd of hippidion (proto-horses), a herd of water buffalo, a few palorchesties, and perhaps some giant sloth or elasmotheriums hanging out nearby. mammoths, aurochs - anything non-hostile will do. that way, when the predators show up. there's at least a chance they'll go for the other critters first.

Also, I'm curious about the term "idiot lights", I've never heard it before.

from the automotive industry, the little lights that light up on your dash, such as low oil pressure, instead of having real gauges, such as an oil pressure gauge.

so for example, there's no "health bar", just "idiot lights" that say "injured" or "high damage".

but they convey things that they player would otherwise have no way of knowing, like the character's hunger, sleep, happiness, etc., levels.

you can still pull up the stats screen and see the exact level of all stats, both basic stats (str, dex, HP, etc), and "variable stats": food, water, mood, sleep, etc. the idiot lights just let you know onscreen when something is amiss (hungry, thirsty, sleepy, unhappy, lonely, injured, sick, etc).

its a "less is more" approach to UI design, inspired by health bars that fade out when full, and effects like more blood onscreen instead of a health bar, as seen in skyrim and a number of console shooter titles. as a player, i think i actually prefer it. it seemed a bit weird at first, but now, going back to games with a more "busy / kludgey / cluttered" interface (basically one that takes up more screen real estate) seems almost a step backwards somehow. i suspect we may see a continuing trend towards less is more in shooter interfaces. information as needed - and only as needed. after all, in the real world, interface complexity is now one of the limiting factors in fighter plane design.

i'd probably go with 'on hit' conditions for the sake of simplicity. maybe even have the music increase as i gravitate towards the enemy.
maybe make an exception if you stealthily kill the enemy.

I wouldn't want some triumphant battle music to start blaring until i was spotted by an enemy.

imagine trying to sneak up on a jaguar while some loud latin choir is chanting in your ear.