Advertisement

Type of Computer?

Started by August 22, 2013 02:03 AM
57 comments, last by swiftcoder 11 years, 2 months ago

Mine's similar to minibutmany's.

An incrementally modified Dell Dimension E521:

(Added a GB of Ram, installed Win 7, got a better videocard and a second harddrive)

  • Windows 7 Home Premium 32bit
  • 64 bit Athlon dual core
  • 3 GB Ram (wish I had at least another two in here, but the 32 bit OS won't support any more)
  • One 350GB harddrive and another 500GB one (broken into four partitions).
  • AMD Radeon 4670 w/ 512 MB video ram (this has served me very well, but is somewhat outdated now)
  • Monitor res is 1680x1050, and it's ~22 inches, maybe 21", I forget.

Computer's getting old, but has been functional for six years now.

Setting aside specific components, I'll share my general strategy for buying a computer -- I've always been well-served by buying just behind the bell-curve of price/performance. Aside from a few specific components I've picked up when feeling lavish (and generally also when gainfully employed and well-compensated), I've never bought the absolute best-of-the-best. Computer components, like most other goods where a "high-end" market exists, can rather easily cost you 2-3 time more for top-tier components that are only marginally faster (typically 15%, give or take). It really doesn't make sense to buy thosoe unless you're working in a profession where time is money, where such components represent a bottle-neck in your workflow, and where freeing up that (up to) 20% of time will actually pay for the massive different in cost. This is especially true of "professional-grade" components like workstation GPUs or processors, but its even true of consumer-level components.

A good, fast, core i7 can be had for around $300, but you can easily spend $600-$1000 for the very fastest models, or the "extreme" versions -- for that extra $300-$700, you probably get 400Mhz base clock-speed, and a few more megs of cache -- or, maybe you get two more cores (but lower clock-speeds) and the ability to host more memory. GPUs are interesting, in that performance actually scales close-to-linearly in the higher-end range (owing mostly to near-perfect SLI scaling and SLI products that are basically 2x their single-gpu conterparts) but down in the more main-stream ranges its again not difficult to find GPUs that cost half as much as another but give you 75-80 percent of the performance. RAM is different in another way -- you pay dearly for higher-clocked lower-latency modules that make almost no perceptible different in actual workloads -- in any real-world choice scenario, it's pretty much always better to take 2x slower RAM than 1x of much faster RAM.

In this way, you can very easily spend right around $200 per major component (CPU, Motherboard, GPU, RAM) and have a very nice system rounding up to an even $1000 for the rest of the components -- all the better if you have an old case, power-supply, or disk drives you can make use of.

throw table_exception("(? ???)? ? ???");

Advertisement


in any real-world choice scenario, it's pretty much always better to take 2x slower RAM than 1x of much faster RAM

I'm not sure I agree with this. RAM is so damn cheap these days that you can easily afford more than you can actually used.

I have machines at work and home equipped with 16 GB of RAM, and that tends to work out to 4 GB of useful RAM, and 12 GB of dubiously helpful disk cache...

Tristam MacDonald. Ex-BigTech Software Engineer. Future farmer. [https://trist.am]

Here's a blurry pic!

8-core

8gig

2tb

3 monitors(2 19s and a 27)

blur.png

The forth monitor on the left is connected to a headless laptop I've been playing Cave Story on.


in any real-world choice scenario, it's pretty much always better to take 2x slower RAM than 1x of much faster RAM

I'm not sure I agree with this. RAM is so damn cheap these days that you can easily afford more than you can actually used.

I have machines at work and home equipped with 16 GB of RAM, and that tends to work out to 4 GB of useful RAM, and 12 GB of dubiously helpful disk cache...

My main point is that the faster RAM will make literally no difference in your workflow -- It barely shows up in benchmarks that simulate workflows (2-5%) maybe -- and that's without the human factor, wherein every sip of coffee you take is on the same order of time as the difference the faster RAM will make on a job that takes a handful of minutes to process. The only caveat is if you're sharing your RAM with a modernish integrated GPU (like a Haswell CPU or AMD APU), then it can make a measurable difference to gaming or multimedia. Otherwise, faster RAM is only of use to overclockers.

My experience with RAM usage is quite different (its bound to be) -- My work machine has 12 gigs, and if I have one or two spartan VMs running on 3GB each, the 6-9 GB that's left over is actually quite painful to deal with. I pretty commonly have Visual Studio, MSWord, Outlook, and 1-2 dozen chrome tabs open (Chrome is a pig, frankly), alongside at least 1 VM, and Windows usually informs me that I should close some programs because I'm running low on memory at least daily.

In my experience, more RAM is the single best investment you can make in your computers performance up to 12-16GB (at that point, get a good SSD if you don't yet have one). 8GB is a practical minimum today, 16 is better. If you run VMs, add 4GB for each one you might need to run concurrently. My laptop actually has 32GB because I sometimes am dedicating half of that to VMs.

Anyhow, I wasn't really suggesting OP should go crazy and get 32gigs of RAM -- 8 is workable, 16 is more than enough, and future-proof for most. I was just saying don't go out and spend 2x as much getting the fastest 8 or 16GB you can find, because there's precious little difference between that and stuff that runs at slightly more pedestrian speeds. I'd rather not spend the money on negligible performance, and get 16GB instead of 8GB, put that money into other components, or pocket it.

I'm also not advocating for getting the cheapest RAM one can find. In my experience, inexpensive RAM has been the source of more of my hardware troubles than any other component. There's plenty of cheap, poor-quality RAM in the market, and there's also some less-expensive "performance" RAM that's actually just standard-grade RAM configured to tell your motherboard to clock it higher and feed it higher voltage (a factory-overclock basically, rather than actually being a more-capable part to begin with). The last three times I've purchased RAM, I've bought G.Skill and haven't had any problems -- I have had problems with Kingmax and Crucial -- RAM seems to have come back up a bit in price since a year ago when I bought my laptop, but back then I paid just a little over $200 for 4x8GB DDR3 SO-DIMMs that were actually quite fast still, but there were still higher-speed, lower-latency kits by G.Skill and others that were running $250+ for 2x8GB.

throw table_exception("(? ???)? ? ???");


I pretty commonly have Visual Studio, MSWord, Outlook, and 1-2 dozen chrome tabs open (Chrome is a pig, frankly), alongside at least 1 VM, and Windows usually informs me that I should close some programs because I'm running low on memory at least daily.

There are increasingly many days when I'm really glad I don't have to deal with Windows :)

A dozen tabs in Chrome, Eclipse (talk about a memory hog), a large Java-driven build system, GIMP - I'm rarely able to commit more than 4 gigs all told on my Ubuntu box. Apart from its annoying habit of using the remaining 12 GB for disk cache...

Tristam MacDonald. Ex-BigTech Software Engineer. Future farmer. [https://trist.am]

Advertisement


in any real-world choice scenario, it's pretty much always better to take 2x slower RAM than 1x of much faster RAM

I'm not sure I agree with this. RAM is so damn cheap these days that you can easily afford more than you can actually used.

I have machines at work and home equipped with 16 GB of RAM, and that tends to work out to 4 GB of useful RAM, and 12 GB of dubiously helpful disk cache...

disk cache is useful in that it makes frequent HDD based tasks go faster, as then they don't have to go all the way back out to the physical HDD to read/write data.

this can make things like recompiling ones' project or copying files around, or loading up apps and similar often go faster.

and is generally much cheaper than buying an SSD...

also, in cases where programs suddenly need a lot more RAM, then stuff can get pushed out to disk and the RAM is there and ready to use.

of course, if one does have an SSD, then maybe it is more plausible to have less RAM and instead have a really big swap file.

but, OTOH, if one doesn't have enough RAM, and they are using a traditional HDD, then regularly having everything go really slow and grind the HDD isn't really a great experience... in this way, having a lot of RAM is sort of the price one pays to not have their computer grind...

especially, say, if a person has the tendency to very often nearly always leave FireFox running, where it itself has a tendency to eat up a good 3GB or so (and push other things out of RAM), ... say, allowing playing a game with FF still running, ...

You don't need high end computers to learn programming.

Started coding on a Pentium 2 ( 450 MZH ) with a massive 75MB RAM card, and 640x480 graphics. I also had a sound blaster card !

Last dev laptop I had had single core 1.8 GHz processor, with a 128 MB graphics card and 512MB ram. Had no issues, even when video editing.

The current dev laptop I have has duel core 2.8 GZh, 512 MB Intel graphics card and 4 GB ram. Again I have no issues with it.

All work environments are Windows, with Linux emulators for when it is absolutely necessary.

I cannot remember the books I've read any more than the meals I have eaten; even so, they have made me.

~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

Thank you everyone for your feedback. I learned so much, which definitely gave me assurance. I'm targeting an i5/i7 and a good amount of ram.

disk cache is useful in that it makes frequent HDD based tasks go faster, as then they don't have to go all the way back out to the physical HDD to read/write data.

also, in cases where programs suddenly need a lot more RAM, then stuff can get pushed out to disk and the RAM is there and ready to use.

Recent versions of Ubuntu seem to be shipping with a pretty iffy disk caching policy. Not only will it use the entire set of available RAM as disk cache, but it'll then starve running applications of memory, rather than release portions of the cache. Every time I run a full build of our source tree, I'll end up with a nice, full 12-14 GB of disk cache, which will then persist till next reboot.

Thank god for sync; echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches, but I'd rather they made the disk cache policy tunable, and/or gave it sensible defaults...

Tristam MacDonald. Ex-BigTech Software Engineer. Future farmer. [https://trist.am]

This topic is closed to new replies.

Advertisement