It would be nice if console manufacturers would stop thinking indie developers have cooties or whatever. We wont kill game sells by creating indie content.

I think that's what was so impressive about seeing Jonathan Blow on stage during the PS4 unveiling. I mean stop and think about it - This is the launch of a new device that has millions of dollars behind it, it's trying to get off on the best foot for a 10 year cycle, it's trying to impress gamers enough that their console is better than any other console and worth buying...and they demo it with The Witness? Next to the new Killzone? Crazy!

I think that Microsoft has managed to ruin their relationship with all the indie developers (eg. Edmund, Jonathan) enough that Sony is trying to capitalize on it. So far it seems to be working.

So, I hope that indie gaming is supported strongly on the next consoles. I probably spent 80% of my Xbox time on Xbox Live games, so if Sony can give proper support to indie gamers that would be awesome.

I think that Microsoft has managed to ruin their relationship with all the indie developers (eg. Edmund, Jonathan) enough that Sony is trying to capitalize on it. So far it seems to be working.

I haven't been paying attention here. What was done to ruin relationships?

At a guess this refers to the whole 'zomg! Windows 8 store! It r the closed and evil!' stuff which was kicking about around Win8's launch.

Thing is I suspect out of the two companies MS will be the first to put up a 'broad access' development system like XNA; the next Xbox is more than likely going to be running the Windows 8 kernel which means that, like the phones, it'll likely have sandboxed C++ ability (just without the battery sucking power ability) so I suspect that much like Windows Phone 8 and WinRT/Modern UI apps before it a $99/year dev for the Xbox option using familiar APIs might well open up after launch.

I don't see it being an XNA type thing, just along the lines of what we have now for the tablet, phone and MUI apps - which makes sense if you consider that MS basically want to get everything connected which means more people are likely to buy into their stuff.

At a guess this refers to the whole 'zomg! Windows 8 store! It r the closed and evil!' stuff which was kicking about around Win8's launch.

Not so much the Windows8 stuff, but from the stories of indie developers being treated poorly when developing for the Xbox.

At a guess this refers to the whole 'zomg! Windows 8 store! It r the closed and evil!' stuff which was kicking about around Win8's launch.

Not so much the Windows8 stuff, but from the stories of indie developers being treated poorly when developing for the Xbox.

To be fair, that's not indies being treated poorly as such, it's just them being treated the same as any other developer. All developers (big or small) are expected to fork over tens of thousands of dollars for the privilege of being on a console... This is the same across 360 and PS3 at the moment.

[edit]And from what Sony has said so far, it's not going to change on the PS4 -- yes they've mentioned 'self publishing', but this is a service for companies that have gone through the registered developer program