Violent games cause violent behavior is a no win position.

There are alot of very smart people working in games. But I think too many defense mechanisms kick in on this issue particularly when the argument is worded in this typical way. "Violent games cause violence" is designed to cause a bunch of wheel spinning and goings to nowhere.

I prefer to look at the influence of games in the same way as I do the influence of all mass media. There are not only opportunity costs to consuming frivolous media. There IS a learning of concepts that are of dubious value or worse. Money and guns give you dominance and power. Violence solves problems (no blowblack, no real consequences). Diplomacy has little to no value. Empathy is for sissies. Shortcuts ftw. It's not about how you play the game. Winning is all that matters. Points! High scores! The opposition is one dimensionally evil, they are dumb and they are inferior. Civility is weakness. Females are sex objects. Don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like Lara? Being and behaving in an intelligent manner is lame. Getting drunk, high or stoned is cool. Turning your brain off and learning to enjoy stupid tv/games/films is good. Get a Roku. Debate is another word for a yelling match where the last man standing wins. Torture gets results. You're not stupid, everyone else is. Stupid only counts if you're broke and powerless. If you're as unsophisticated and stupid as the bum sitting the in the gutter but you have a fat bank account, you are winning. Vice is exciting. Virtue is for idealistic morons who don't understand how the real world works. Etc, etc, etc.

The games industry will never have anything to fear reguarding the "violent games cause kids to snap" argument. It's one of those arguments that will channel us all down a pointless dead-end series of conversations. Go us.

Much of the media we consume, much of the media we make will not result in the betterment of humanity nor the world we live. That's just a fact. Indeed it has helped us all become masters of hypocrisy. Hey brother and sister, consume my mind shaping garbage but if you forget to check in with the personal responsibility region of your brain (you know, that region we were all born with) and you end up ignorant, saddled with vices, mental health issues, etc... well that's on YOU.

BLAME YOURSELF AND YOUR PARENTS because that is who I will be blaming. I had nothing to do with it. Our marketing department didn't hold a gun to your head making you buy our product even though we denied that it would cause you any harm whatsoever and even though we fought tooth and nail against legislation that would force us to label it as such. (Although if we have to, we'll settle for PG-13, R, M for Mature because they don't adequately describe the depths of the harm and the ratings board will just tally up tits and swear words which are heavily discounted because we've all seen and heard them anyway!!! WHeeeeee!) We just wanted to give you enjoyment and this is how you repaid us? Now excuse us while we brush our teeth without gazing at our own reflections in the mirror.

Alas, if only we had all eaten from a tree of knowledge of good and evil and we magically understood in the deepest sense, what made good beneficial and evil destructive. No joy. We have to teach each other.

I think perhaps your point got lost in all that ranting. Assuming, of course, that there was one.

Because, clearly, distinguishing whether any form of message - be it coming from a video game, some advertisement or just mass media in general - conflicts with your own values is difficult, right? I've played violent games for years, and I've never killed or even voluntarily harmed another human being under normal circumstances. If people can't make the difference between a game and the real world, they have some serious issues.

Frankly, I don't give two craps about what happens in my virtual game world. If I want to play as a ruthless gangster and chop people's hands off because they look funny that way, or swap hospital vaccines with STD's just because I can, so be it. It's fun to experiment and see the results of my imagination. But does that mean that I'm going to start acting like that in real life? Of course not.

1) Violent games cause violent behavior is a no win position.

2) Games are no different from all other forms of media. The depths of their harm (specifically talking about frivolous entertainment that pander and only care about making a buck) on our culture and on young people's views on the world in particular is much deeper than the lightweight born loser argument that violence in media cause kids to go BOOM!"

@Bacterius

I specifically refuted that position. I'm not saying games cause people to become violence. Incidentally anecdotal personal accounts don't say much. But as I said that is beisdes the point. The whole violent games cause violence in people is a LOSER argument. Your reply exemplifies why I think this argument is a loser.

I am saying that instead of falling into that trap, we should not be looking at games specifically, but all mass media (particurlarly mass entertainment) in terms of the messages they send us. I think they reinforce alot of negative views and attitudes.

[quote name='Hypnotron' timestamp='1358007619' post='5020733']
I am saying that instead of falling into that trap, we should not be looking at games specifically, but all mass media (particurlarly mass entertainment) in terms of the messages they send us. I think they reinforce alot of negative views and attitudes.
[/quote]

Uhh, my post was centered around video games because your thread title has "video games" in it. Substitute with whatever form of mass media you want, and the point still stands. I fail to see your argument.

I should have added, and that they are harmful / damaging in THAT way. It's a much more subtle argument than "games cause kids to go boom!" I'm saying frankly, our willingness to make entertainment products that sell FIRST and that educate and instill virtue LAST is harmful.

@ Bacterius: well you will have to be more specific on what it is you do not understand. I am trying to work with you but you seem to be ignoring things I've said in previous posts. What do you fail to see exactly? I have not said once anywhere that games cause kids to go boom.

I think I understand what is causing the confusion so I will put a stop to it right here and now.

I used a provocative title. My title suggested that I was persuing the argument that violent games cause kids to go snap. That is not my argument, but it's clear to me now why people would think that it was (especially if they didn't read the content of my post).

To be honest, i used that title because that is what is lately in the media "OMG, GAMES MAKE KIDS SHOOT UP THE BLOCK!" To be honest, I just assumed people would read the content of my post first and see that I was using it sarcasticly.

Anyway... my position is that friviolous and rather "base" games just like frivolous and "base" tv/film/comics/etc, are all harmful and that as creators we might think about this on a conscious level. You may disagree and that is fine. But maybe it clicks for others. Our media does affect us. As creators we can ignore it, but first we must have the choice by acknowledging that there is an effect.

I should also clarify when i say they ARE harmful, I mean potentially harmful to some in the sense that they can instill or reinforce negative values. Now if it is your (whoever you are) personal oppinion that such values are not negative, then so be it. Truthfully in my own sense of morality they are and that is why this entire series of post is my opinion. We are here sharing ideas. I am here sharing my ideas.