Yeah, I guess when you live in a nice area where there's a best buy and a radio shack and another hardware store around the block. Funny, but turns out there are some places on earth that aren't like that either. I just don't like the "$35 computer" thing, when you know it costs more than $35 to use this thing.

I also have the USB cables (at least 2) to power the thing. I don't have a smartphone, just the free (or almost free) cellphone the phone company gave me. Not everyone will have those! But many will, so why charge them extra for something they already have? I also have a MicroSD card (three, but I lost one and gave one away). I got them each for less than $10. That's just happenstance though, most people won't have them. I don't have a collection of geeky technology sitting around my desk, so the fact that I had a MicroSD card is a coincidence.

The computer part costs $35, and they are trying to get it cheaper still.
That doesn't mean it won't cost more to use the device.

Total cost to program with the Raspberry Pi:
$35 - The Pi itself
$10 - The cables
$10 - The MicroSD card
$0 - The case isn't actually needed
$350 - A monitor
$700 - A computer to code on
Reoccurring $40 monthly internet fee to access the documentation

Should they ship all this with a Raspberry Pi? No.

If their descriptions and stated goals are too enthusiastic, that's just a very small company of people who are very passionate.

Ideally, when they start having third would countries using this device, the schools will have a computer and a monitor and cables set up, and the kids will each individually only have the Pi and the MicroSD card. Hopefully, when they reach that point, the Pi and the MicroSD cards will together cost $12 or so, and will be purchased en-bulk by their government, just like India was planning on doing with the OLPC, before the OLPC was more expensive then predicted and India decided to research making $10 computers to hook up to school monitors.

I think the main problem is that the media frenzy surrouding the Pi has resulted in some expectations in some parts of the community, which vastly exceeded anything the Pi foundation ever promised or even suggested.

Yes, many people need to buy additional bits - especially PSUs and leads - to use their Pi.

As far as $700 for "a computer to code on" - this is absolutely false - the Pi was MEANT to be a self-hosting system. If you need to cross-compile to it, then you're Doing It Wrong. That was never the intention (and it's certainly not how I use mine!)

I think the main problem is that the media frenzy surrouding the Pi has resulted in some expectations in some parts of the community, which vastly exceeded anything the Pi foundation ever promised or even suggested.

That's what I think whenever I see the posts "Raspberry Pi is teh aw3s0m3". Or when I look at the frequent Slashdot articles on it, which are very similar.

The Foundation as always been pretty clear about what they want: A cheap SoC that anyone can use -- which people tend to notice -- and materials focused around education and the Python programming language and tools like PyGame --- but that second part people tend to overlook.

The device can do more, certainly. And people have done quite a lot with it.

It is a cool little device, no question about that. But relative to what most people have available it is slow and clunky.

The Foundation wanted people to do cool stuff with it, but that is beyond their initial goals.

If you have a computer system and you can install PyGame on it... well then, you've got it and that's it. That's all the device was designed for.

That's what I think whenever I see the posts "Raspberry Pi is teh aw3s0m3". Or when I look at the frequent Slashdot articles on it, which are very similar.

The Foundation as always been pretty clear about what they want: A cheap SoC that anyone can use -- which people tend to notice -- and materials focused around education and the Python programming language and tools like PyGame --- but that second part people tend to overlook.

The device can do more, certainly. And people have done quite a lot with it.

It is a cool little device, no question about that. But relative to what most people have available it is slow and clunky.

The Foundation wanted people to do cool stuff with it, but that is beyond their initial goals.

If you have a computer system and you can install PyGame on it... well then, you've got it and that's it. That's all the device was designed for.

No, the worst thing is that not a single person who has posted in this topic can seem to exactly agree on what the hell the Pi is for. You're right that the media has been playing things up in a different direction than what the foundation first wanted, but let's be honest: The foundation is eating it up. Like I said before, just look at their blog. For the most part, it's just hobbyist projects that are in no way beneficial to someone who doesn't know Linux, Python, or how to work with hardware. There are some things that are slightly beginner friendly, but then that's completely offset by posts like this, where they point out projects being done by grown men who admittedly have years of experience working with hardware. It plays right into that "It's a $35 computer you can do anything with!" idea. I just don't know what they're trying to do. I'm sure there's an appropriate place for them to point out stuff like that, but why the main site that everyone goes to? What is the message supposed to be?

The Pi is what it is... It never claimed to be more.

Originally the Raspberry was designed as an educational tool. To enable classes in poorer countries to get a bunch of cheap computers to teach their students. Then later the geek/nerd crowd jumped on it and hyped it up like it was... t3h l33test sh!t evar!!1

This is also the reason for the shipping delays. They were just not prepared for the amount of orders.

I really don't see the problem here. If it didn't meet your expectations you hve only yourself to blame.

Your complaints don't make sense. Your post just reads like someone who went into Home Depot and bought a ton of wood, then complains that no one has told you what the wood was for.

The PI is not supposed to be "FOR" anything. It's a system on a chip, and left at that. What it's "FOR" is up to you. You have 100% freedom. If it were anything more than a system on a chip, it would be useless for it's intended purpose.

It's a system that anyone with the relevant skills can take and transform into another device without having to design their own chipset and OS.

[quote name='Shaquil' timestamp='1356752887' post='5015307']
I'm a kid, I'm new to Linux, I'm new to working with hardware, and using the Pi thus far has been a complete pain.
[/quote]

To start with, Linux isn't easy when you're new to it. The Pi isn't making it easier, either. No one said it was going to be easy.

I got what I expected for $70. Bought one unit in August and played around with OpenCV and sensors/motors but it got difficult for me as I'm not used to working with anything else than Visual Studio/Eclipse. Was busy with other projects and so I lost interest a little bit and just figured I'd slap XMBC on it. Worth every penny anyway, it's $70 for crying out loud. The possibilities are there, definatly.

Will buy another one to experiment with when I get the spare time.

That's what I think whenever I see the posts "Raspberry Pi is teh aw3s0m3". Or when I look at the frequent Slashdot articles on it, which are very similar.

The Foundation as always been pretty clear about what they want: A cheap SoC that anyone can use -- which people tend to notice -- and materials focused around education and the Python programming language and tools like PyGame --- but that second part people tend to overlook.

The device can do more, certainly. And people have done quite a lot with it.

It is a cool little device, no question about that. But relative to what most people have available it is slow and clunky.

The Foundation wanted people to do cool stuff with it, but that is beyond their initial goals.

If you have a computer system and you can install PyGame on it... well then, you've got it and that's it. That's all the device was designed for.

No, the worst thing is that not a single person who has posted in this topic can seem to exactly agree on what the hell the Pi is for. You're right that the media has been playing things up in a different direction than what the foundation first wanted, but let's be honest: The foundation is eating it up. Like I said before, just look at their blog. For the most part, it's just hobbyist projects that are in no way beneficial to someone who doesn't know Linux, Python, or how to work with hardware. There are some things that are slightly beginner friendly, but then that's completely offset by posts like this, where they point out projects being done by grown men who admittedly have years of experience working with hardware. It plays right into that "It's a $35 computer you can do anything with!" idea. I just don't know what they're trying to do. I'm sure there's an appropriate place for them to point out stuff like that, but why the main site that everyone goes to? What is the message supposed to be?

I don't see the problem here. They have a blog where they post cool projects that people have done with the rasberry pi. Did they every say they would have tutorials on the blog? What did you expect

Your complaints don't make sense. Your post just reads like someone who went into Home Depot and bought a ton of wood, then complains that no one has told you what the wood was for.

The PI is not supposed to be "FOR" anything. It's a system on a chip, and left at that. What it's "FOR" is up to you. You have 100% freedom. If it were anything more than a system on a chip, it would be useless for it's intended purpose.

It's a system that anyone with the relevant skills can take and transform into another device without having to design their own chipset and OS.

I'll just repost this for emphasis. From the FAQ and User Guide.

From the FAQ: "We want to see it being used by kids all over the world to learn programming." From the Raspberry Pi User Guide: "A big kick up the backside came a few years ago, when we were moving quite slowly on the Raspberry Pi project. ... I was talking to a neighbour's nephew about the subjects he was taking for his GCSE. ... computer games were a passion for him, but his schooling had skirted around any programming. This is the sort of situation I want to see the back of, where potential enthusiasm is squandered to no purpose."

I'm sorry, but it is FOR something. There's actually a large, growing thread in the forums about this very issue. It seems I'm not the only one: http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=25501

I'd love to have a true discussion about this, but there's nothing more boring than when someone tries to downplay my opinion or right to speak by saying that "You're not makin no sense! What you talkin bout!?" I'm done here. At least we agree on one thing: I was wrong about the Pi, its usefulness as a learning tool, and certainly its community of users.

I believe someone on the RPi forum said it succinctly:

"It does exactly what it says on the tin. It runs Linux or RISC OS. You can program it. You can learn how right from the lowest level. What you can't do is jump in the deep end and magically swim. You need guidance, from parents or teachers or scout leaders or books or the net. If you throw a kid in the pool you'll have drowned kids. If you let them learn with guidance you may get an Olympic swimmer. The educational material will be coming."

Now, of course, this "educational material" is a bit of a mythical beast at the moment, and in my opinion a lot of info has been too long coming.

The important questions I have for Shaquil are:

What do you want to do with the Pi? How much do you know so far? Where are you stuck?

If you could let us know what you're looking for, in terms of help, I know of several people from the meetup I go to who would be glad to help.

--

Mike