We have HECS in Australia, Higher Education Commonwealth Support Help, which does two things, it will give a 10% discount on any fee's if they are paid up-front (it was 20% until recently). And more importantly it provides for most courses a government provided interest free loan, that you don't have to pay back until you are earning above a certain amount. It is then paid back through the tax system. So no, in Australia it isn't a luxury, it's an option.

And fair enough too, providing global education is in every-bodies interest. Is anyone still arguing that it should only be available to the wealthy ?

Edit : I believe that in The States there uni system is very different to ours, they have a a much stronger scholarship system than us, because basically we don't need it to get an education. I suppose it's a difference in perspective of who should pay for the nations education ... but that can become a slightly complex discussion in itself for a number of reasons.

HECS has slowly been dismantled over the years - the original system gave all tertiary students the ability to get a "free" education (basically a government scholarship in the form of an inflation-rate loan, repaid via tax, on a regulated-cost education fee).
In '96, Howard changed the system so that there were only a limited number of students allowed into the HECS system each year, distributed between courses by the weighted "value" of each degree. If you missed out on a HECS allocation then you could only get an education if you had the money.
In '06, Howard deregulated the whole system and HECS became a "legacy system", replaced by "CSP" & "HELP". The number of allowed CSP (HECS) students continues to shrink, while the up-front costs for non-CSP/HELP students continues to rise astronomically.
Also, the discount for voluntary repayments on existing HECS/HELP debts has been reduced to just 5% now.

At this rate, give us another decade and we'll be as bad off as the Americans are. Tertiary education is already becoming a luxury for the rich and talented+lucky only, not a universal option for all citizens -- personally, I have friends who've been denied entry into the 'free' education system.

I do agree though that HECS was a magnificent system, and all countries should strive to implement something like it.

No. College will be more and more of a commonplace thing in Western countries as occupations that don't require a university degree are all either outsourced to Asia or will be very soon.

I like the system here in germany, where everyone can go to any university (at least from a financial perspective)

Wells guys I come from California and education is getting more and more expensive. In the 90s a semester at a UC coated $600 flat fee for as many units u wanted . Now a four unit class in a community college is $145. With that much money I was able to buy a video game console design kit. Allegro programming book, data structures for game programmers, and OpenGL game programming and still was left with money in my pocket. That's like 2 years worth of classes right there for less than a 4 unit class. Something is def wrong here

In the US there are federal grants ('free' government money) available to everyone who needs it. The grants provide enough money to cover most of the tuition at most of the inexpensive state-run universities.
There are also academic scholarships available to basically everybody who studies. (Sadly, many students do not study.)
Those who choose to attend the less prestigious state schools can very easily have all tuition and fees covered by 'free' money.
Those who choose to attend more expensive schools are eligible for student loans to cover the difference in cost and to cover some of their living expenses while in school. The student loans are subsidized by the government, have very low interest rates, and can be placed in deferment if you lose your job, cannot work, or have other issues.
The system of student loans has an unfortunate flaw in that the money is given to the student rather than the school. For most students that money is used responsibly for academic expenses. As I mentioned in my story above, some people take the student loans and use it to subsidise their lifestyle rather than using it for scholarship. Those people are often the ones saddled by heavy student debt.

I challenge you on this - do not tell me about all this, SHOW me. I live in the States
I have a Bachelor's in general science, an associate's in communications, and over a dozen tech related certifications.
Everything except the associate's I had to pay for 100% - that degree I received in high school.
I have never qualified for ANY state or government grant - those are reserved for special interest groups.
I have never received any kind of governmental subsidy - again those are reserved for special interest groups.

I have, however, defaulted on my student loans, since I can not find any kind of job that pays more than my loan payments. My credit is wrecked, and any kind of retirement benefits I may receive in the future is forfeit (until the defaulted debt is payed back).

[quote name='frob' timestamp='1355026526' post='5008695']
In the US there are federal grants ('free' government money) available to everyone who needs it. The grants provide enough money to cover most of the tuition at most of the inexpensive state-run universities.
There are also academic scholarships available to basically everybody who studies. (Sadly, many students do not study.)
Those who choose to attend the less prestigious state schools can very easily have all tuition and fees covered by 'free' money.
Those who choose to attend more expensive schools are eligible for student loans to cover the difference in cost and to cover some of their living expenses while in school. The student loans are subsidized by the government, have very low interest rates, and can be placed in deferment if you lose your job, cannot work, or have other issues.
The system of student loans has an unfortunate flaw in that the money is given to the student rather than the school. For most students that money is used responsibly for academic expenses. As I mentioned in my story above, some people take the student loans and use it to subsidise their lifestyle rather than using it for scholarship. Those people are often the ones saddled by heavy student debt.

I challenge you on this - do not tell me about all this, SHOW me. I live in the States
I have a Bachelor's in general science, an associate's in communications, and over a dozen tech related certifications.
Everything except the associate's I had to pay for 100% - that degree I received in high school.
I have never qualified for ANY state or government grant - those are reserved for special interest groups.
I have never received any kind of governmental subsidy - again those are reserved for special interest groups.

I have, however, defaulted on my student loans, since I can not find any kind of job that pays more than my loan payments. My credit is wrecked, and any kind of retirement benefits I may receive in the future is forfeit (until the defaulted debt is payed back).
[/quote]

FAFSA is based in how much money you make, that's why your required to submit your tax return (or your parents). So if you made too much then you won't qualify for as much. It's not just for special interest groups. It's for poor people. There is also limited funds for each school and you have to get it in early or they will run out. FAFSA recommends you file asap in January and then submit as soon as you can. In Oklahoma one can go to a community college full time for about $900 a semester. There are a few nice 4 year institutions that has tuition around $1400 a semester. I regularly got enough to cover my tuition even when I was making 40k+ a year. Then on top of that they will offer student loans. The loans are there to cover any expenses you need to make school possible, like paying for staying in the dorms or rent of whatever. You can always turn down the loans and get a part-time job though. You don't have to take them to receive the FAFSA money.

Edit: Forgot to mention that my ex-wife took all the loans she could when she was going. The FAFSA paid her tuition but she wanted the money. So now she has a 30k student loan debt. I don't take the loans and I have zero school debt. It can be done.

Mmm... Here the biggest universities are from the state, and they're free. You just need a certificate that you finished secondary school ("high school" equivalent i think? ) for signing up. Some faculties require an exam before (i had to do an exam for engineering faculty), but there are "harder to get in" universities like Universidad de Buenos Aires which require a whole year doing some universally required courses, then pass an exam and then you can pursuit your degree. Is one of the best universities around though.

FAFSA isn't just for poor people. I had I think 2 fafsa loans. They weren't huge. [edit: What I meant to convey is that I was middle/upper-middle class and I still got fafsa loans. They weren't as large as some, but I still got them.]

One thing I wish there were a better system for would be to have a more generic scholarship process. A lot of scholarships are pretty similar (best X applicants in Y field) and could be covered by the same application, but for most you have to apply individually, and it's tiresome. It's totally worth it, but I find it somewhat masturbatory that you have to essentially fill out 50 applications that are all the same with similar outcomes. I can't think of a better way that couldn't be abused though.

I think a significant part of the problem is that a lot of students don't realize how many scholarships are available to them until it's too late. In retrospect I probably could have gotten a good amount of my debt taken care of if I had known how many there were available to me, and that was at a modestly sized school. I didn't really look that hard, but I figured scholarships were for more remarkable people than I, so I never put much effort into looking.

I have a Bachelor's in general science, an associate's in communications, and over a dozen tech related certifications.
Everything except the associate's I had to pay for 100% - that degree I received in high school.
I have never qualified for ANY state or government grant - those are reserved for special interest groups.
I have never received any kind of governmental subsidy - again those are reserved for special interest groups.

Whether fair or not, certifications simply aren't a piece of the post-secondary educational structure, so their cost is a different discussion entirely.

I think maybe saying "special interest groups" is a bit of an overstatement for who the government subsidizes. But I think it is fair to say that those subsidies are not available to everybody. It is primarily targeted at the poor. If you and/or your guardians/parents have too much income, those subsidies simply aren't going to be available to you. I don't know if they account for different regions of the US in determining those income levels, but if not, you would certainly be at a disadvantage if you lived in a higher income area of the country (west coast or northeast are the primary areas that come to mind for that).

And as BMO mentioned, FAFSA is also timing based (essentially first come, first served among those who qualify for its need-based process). So without some fairly personal info from you, it's pretty hard to speculate on why on you didn't qualify for government subsidies.

I have, however, defaulted on my student loans, since I can not find any kind of job that pays more than my loan payments. My credit is wrecked, and any kind of retirement benefits I may receive in the future is forfeit (until the defaulted debt is payed back).

Definitely sorry to hear that that happened. Hopefully you're in the process of landing a job that will give you enough income to live on, save money, and begin to dig out of that debt. Bouncing back isn't an easy process, but it is definitely achievable. Good luck.

I have, however, defaulted on my student loans, since I can not find any kind of job that pays more than my loan payments. My credit is wrecked, and any kind of retirement benefits I may receive in the future is forfeit (until the defaulted debt is payed back).

Somehow I missed this. You can call your loan people and more than likely have the payments deferred so you don't ruin your credit. My cousin deferred hers for 5 years because she wanted to wait till she made more money to pay them back. You have options, just call them.