No nation play by the rule. Just get over it.

Polio kills. Just get over it.
Bank robbers rob banks. Just get over it.
Street gangs make neighborhoods unsafe. Just get over it.

Governments need to play by the rules. Especially democratic ones, who are working for the people who voted them in. They are public servants. If they aren't serving the public interest, or are breaking the laws, that needs to be exposed, and the guilty parties need to suffer the consequences.

All the leaked Cables have been censored by Wikileaks to not put anyone in danger.

The only thing we know for certain is that he is avoiding being tried on charges of rape regardless of how guilty he might be.

Then the only thing you know is wrong;

Mr Assange took refuge at the embassy in June to avoid extradition to Sweden, where he faces questioning over assault and rape claims, which he denies.

Not being tried, questioning.
No charges have been brought against him at this time.

The reason for the 'alarmist' attitude is that these charges suddenly appeared after it became clear he wasn't going to be leaving the UK for the USA. Hodgman's post higher up covers the details about the lack of statements and the deals which countries have in place.

It's pretty damned naive not to be able to do the maths here...

Aw, come on guys, since when has our country ever done anything illegal?

Here in Sweden we're pretty convinced he should be put on trial for rape. He's got nothing to hide... right?

Define We ? (I'm Swedish btw) The amount of political pressure in this case is insane, Seeing that Sweden have sent people off to be tortured by the US before he has every reason to be careful.

[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1345134008' post='4970225']
The only thing we know for certain is that he is avoiding being tried on charges of rape regardless of how guilty he might be.

Not being tried, questioning.
No charges have been brought against him at this time.
[/quote]

Ok. The only thing we know for certain is that he is avoiding being questioned in an investigation of his rape of two women regardless of how guilty he may be.

Ok. The only thing we know for certain is that he is avoiding being questioned in an investigation of his rape of two women regardless of how guilty he may be.

Or is he really?
It would seem that he was granted leave to exit the country and has offered to allow himself to be questioned either at the Swedish embassy in London or Scotland Yard or via video link back in Nov 18th 2010 - this was BEFORE the international arrest warrant was issued.

Which raises the question of why did they let him leave in the first place if this was an on going investigation and why are they so insistant on him coming back when they could have conducted interviews at other locations, including Swedish soil in London?

Note to mention that it is almost unheard of for rape trials in Sweden to be held in public - so why the massive public viewing on this one?

The whole thing, frankly, stinks of a stich up and I don't blame him for not wanting to go back...

[quote name='phantom' timestamp='1345137022' post='4970243']
[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1345134008' post='4970225']
The only thing we know for certain is that he is avoiding being tried on charges of rape regardless of how guilty he might be.

Not being tried, questioning.
No charges have been brought against him at this time.
[/quote]

Ok. The only thing we know for certain is that he is avoiding being questioned in an investigation of his rape of two women regardless of how guilty he may be.
[/quote]

Although I believe he has agreed to:

• Be interviewed in Sweden previously
  
• Be interviewed inside the Ecuadorian embassy now
  
• Voluntarily go to Sweden if they will guarantee not to ship him on to the US to face unrelated charges there
  
• Voluntarily go to Sweden if the US will guarantee not to prosecute him
  
  And these offers were all rejected, which could be even more telling than his apparent reluctance to be questioned.

Although I believe he has agreed to:

• Be interviewed in Sweden previously
  
• Be interviewed inside the Ecuadorian embassy now
  
• Voluntarily go to Sweden if they will guarantee not to ship him on to the US to face unrelated charges there
  
• Voluntarily go to Sweden if the US will guarantee not to prosecute him
  
  And these offers were all rejected, which could be even more telling than his apparent reluctance to be questioned.
  

Sweden neither the US warranted him that they would not prosecute him.

The topic went way off-topic and turned out to be a fight about which country is most soberan and powerful and etc.
The real deal behind all this is that he represents something everyone wishes for but is too afraid to admit. He represents an act of exposing the truth behind governments that anyone should have the right to know.

The governments (like the US) pledge that this info is too sensitive and would cause great harm. But as Hodgman cited great revolutions were based on exposures like this one.
People that say "Politics is not for me" or "I read some stuff on the web but I don't give a shit" are just too selfish and have never had to worry about been pursued and prosecuted unfairly by a government. Since you are too comfort in the position your grandparents and ancestors gave to you, you don't give a shit for those things ... which is very sad.

I think everyone here need to go back to the videostore and rent the movie "V for Vendetta". It brings a great analogy to this situation and shows how an idea can grow up to something huge and valuable.

Guys too many nations out there don't play by the rules. All nations have a secret service ad they certainly do not play by the rules. When I did a research on the Chinese foreign policy they often did not play by the the rules(long story short I took a degree in China studies back then). Name one nation that play the international game by the rule and where human rights and democracy are top priority over everything else. Name one nation where freedom of speech even within secret service is allowed.

You see what I do not get here is that people are so surprised about this issue. What happens if a worker in one game company reveals all the secrets to the other competing game company? I mean why be angry about this guy is getting sued and perhaps even put in jail?

Now what is happening now is not something I like but also please keep in mind that no government will sit quiet by while some organization without any armed division or political power or even a seat in UN, just reveals all its embarrassing details.

Also to cure illness is not the same as cure mans lust for power and domination of resources and territory. One of the things I have learned by studying Organization theory and sociology(minor in the degree mention above) is that the people who work for the governments all over the world think differently and act differently. I do not get how people can be so shocked about this. Surely most of you would have seen this coming.

None of us can change that system unless we change the way other nations play all over the world. The internet is simply not powerful enough for that. The secret service also utilize the internet. How did it go with Egypt? Yaa people talk about Syria and say that the internet had something to do with it. Did anyone consider that each time a new elite steps into the position of power they also become the one they fought(remember the words about fighting monsters and becoming one?? )?

The truth is that most of you do not see what it takes to be in the position of power. Running a nation or dealing with nations who are not playing by the rules is not done by being naive and stick to the rules all the time. That is why we have departments of intelligence and that is why some stuff should not come up to the surface.

So do I find this good? No, but that is not the issue here. The issue here is that many seem to be upset or shock about this wikileak incident where he might end up being handed over to US. Come on guys we all know that US gov would like to prosecute him.

Also just complaining on the net is no good if no actions are taken. So you think this is bad, well then help him or else encourage to help or accept what is happening. Just whining about how bad this is, really does not help much. This is the real life game and not about making games, in this game you can lose your save life if you step wrong and not just some money.

Also I point to the very fact that wikileak should have been analyzing the outcome of their actions a little more before they did what they did as revealing the secrets of a gov is never for free. Is that so hard to understand?

Also democracy is a great thing but that is often is put in the background when the sentence "for the safety of the nation" bumps up. Angry? Well go out and pick your fight as we have a whole world of govs who do not value the people's voice unless a selection is up or they revolt. Remember all you see is the smiles on TV and not all the bad stuff under the hood and that is why most govs dislike wikileaks.

Now before you jump up from your sofa and scream "viva la revolution!" then remember this:
You have no army
You do not have a national bank to fund your plans
You do not have a huge army of propaganda writers
You did notice that wikileaks got all it's accounts closed did you not?

Guys give up or spend all your time doing this and not hanging around here doing nothing. International politics is a full time business and many lose... Else the talk here is really not productive --- back to work -----

Over and out

Dwarf King, I don't think that everybody is as naive as you suggest, or particularly surprised that governments are willing to do this sort of thing. But that doesn't mean that people cannot express their outrage or call people out - even when they know that it is probably futile to do so.

What is perhaps surprising is the brazen and public way in which the UK government is threatening to take the largely unprecedented step of revoking an embassy's diplomatic status. We all know about illegal renditions/abductions, detention without trial, torture etc which have taken place in the past, but this sort of thing is usually conducted with a bit more secrecy.