how bout.. a baby monster that throws around a ball of his. he and the ball will grow as it destroys more

I think a huge amount of flying monsters or other similiar things is more interesting, as you could kill them but theres so many or they reproduce that you cant stop them.

You could also add a huge monster that comes some time after the swarm of small ones or the small ones could spawn from the big monster.

Anyways, i find a huge swarm of evil thingies scary.

This.

A weak but exponentially replicating threat. Not necessarily monsters (grey goo would work too).

Something the player can face easily, only to see the rest growing beyond control. That would create a more drawn out panic. Something like one giant monster or a sphere of destruction would be too obviously a plot point where the player knows it's not meant to be destroyed.

I think the key element here is atmosphere. A good villain/apocalyptic event needs a lot of presence to make players feel in danger.

Danger and fear go hand in hand. Fear is a primal responce to being predated upon. Hence a good antagonist should be a good predator.

So those two key components;

Presence
Predator

Fear is induced by suspecting you are in danger. You aren't afraid of lions because they have no presence near you; you know they're (probably) thousands of miles from where you're sitting right now. However that monster under your bed that was around when you were 5 years old had huge presence; it was right next to you and you slept with it every night. Sure, you never saw it, but it had presence and that alone is scary.

In context, a good antagonist has to be close to the player. You're not afraid of some black hole on the other side of the galaxy; but news that our sun will become one within 24h will scare the hell out of you.

Next, the predator part. Sun becoming black hole is a good predator; you can't fight it. Take every good horror film antagonist and they all have one thing in common; they're efficient at killing you. The aliens from Alien are nearly endless in number, strike from the shadows, are all around you and can incapacitate you in seconds. That's a damn good predator, and damn scary if they had presence in your life.

To summarise, you need to feel like the antagonist is close. You need to feel like the antagonist is an efficient killer. How you do this is entirely up to you, one method isn't really better than another, just get those 2 elements down and it'll have that "psychological effect".

I think the key element here is atmosphere. A good villain/apocalyptic event needs a lot of presence to make players feel in danger.

Danger and fear go hand in hand. Fear is a primal responce to being predated upon. Hence a good antagonist should be a good predator.

So those two key components;

Presence
Predator

Fear is induced by suspecting you are in danger. You aren't afraid of lions because they have no presence near you; you know they're (probably) thousands of miles from where you're sitting right now. However that monster under your bed that was around when you were 5 years old had huge presence; it was right next to you and you slept with it every night. Sure, you never saw it, but it had presence and that alone is scary.

In context, a good antagonist has to be close to the player. You're not afraid of some black hole on the other side of the galaxy; but news that our sun will become one within 24h will scare the hell out of you.

Next, the predator part. Sun becoming black hole is a good predator; you can't fight it. Take every good horror film antagonist and they all have one thing in common; they're efficient at killing you. The aliens from Alien are nearly endless in number, strike from the shadows, are all around you and can incapacitate you in seconds. That's a damn good predator, and damn scary if they had presence in your life.

To summarise, you need to feel like the antagonist is close. You need to feel like the antagonist is an efficient killer. How you do this is entirely up to you, one method isn't really better than another, just get those 2 elements down and it'll have that "psychological effect".

Very insightfull, loved the explanation!

Will the game be completely unwinnable at this point? If so, I don't think it really matters - the player would probably feel cheated anyway.

Will the game be completely unwinnable at this point? If so, I don't think it really matters - the player would probably feel cheated anyway.

Well, there's really no way to win the game in the first place, but if the unstoppable evil gets out then it means the player has lost.
There will be actions the player can take to prevent the unstoppable evil's escape, however. Breaking up cults etc....

[quote name='c-Row' timestamp='1319021508' post='4874241']
Will the game be completely unwinnable at this point? If so, I don't think it really matters - the player would probably feel cheated anyway.

Well, there's really no way to win the game in the first place, but if the unstoppable evil gets out then it means the player has lost.
There will be actions the player can take to prevent the unstoppable evil's escape, however. Breaking up cults etc....
[/quote]

Then what's the point of playing the game? To see how long you last? Either way, if you force me to keep playing when the game is effectively over I'll be upset and frustrated. In that case, it doesn't matter how you present the big baddie. You lost me as a player.

[quote name='ShawnCowles' timestamp='1319027521' post='4874303']
[quote name='c-Row' timestamp='1319021508' post='4874241']
Will the game be completely unwinnable at this point? If so, I don't think it really matters - the player would probably feel cheated anyway.

Well, there's really no way to win the game in the first place, but if the unstoppable evil gets out then it means the player has lost.
There will be actions the player can take to prevent the unstoppable evil's escape, however. Breaking up cults etc....
[/quote]

Then what's the point of playing the game? To see how long you last? Either way, if you force me to keep playing when the game is effectively over I'll be upset and frustrated. In that case, it doesn't matter how you present the big baddie. You lost me as a player.
[/quote]

Nothing's forcing you to keep playing, you could just load up a different world and play there. But I would like to try and encourage the players to keep playing as the world is being destroyed.

Hmm... Perhaps allow the player to build a portal to another world after the unstoppable evil is let out. The process would take awhile (so you'd have to hide from the monster or whatever), but would allow the player to start over in a new world with all of their stuff.

One thing I can tell you about survival -- if it is unachievable, the game looses its purpose.

Take the CoD: Black Ops zombie mode. I played while I had the illusion that there would be some kind of boss or completion to the game. There wasn't -- and high-score I couldn't give a damn about. So I stopped playing that.

Being honest with your players is great, but if the player cannot win, at least in some way, he will not play to witness failure each time.

Nothing's forcing you to keep playing, you could just load up a different world and play there. But I would like to try and encourage the players to keep playing as the world is being destroyed.

You said the game cannot be won; the player can only delay defeat. This alone is not a bad concept--it's Tetris. Some people love it and some, like Zethariel, might not. No big deal.

So I'm just trying to understand your goals for the game. Is it going to be Tetris, where you just try to survive as long as you can to get the high score? If so, that alone will keep people (meaning the kind of people who play for high scores) playing through to the very end. If high score is not the goal, then what is? It can't be saving the world, because you already said the world can't be saved.