food poisoning isn't a, "take this and feel better," kind of illness. It's a, "stay hydrated because you are going to be puking for a while," illness.

For children(or the elderly) it's not something to just wait and see, give water and hope it all works out...sometimes antibiotic treatment is needed(and couldn't hurt). (Am I the only one that remembers the Jack in the Box E. coli Outbreak? Four kids died painfully from hemolytic uremic syndrome )

You don't mess around when it comes to kids. Especially not three days. Your kids dying isn't something that happens to other people. Don't ever get the mindset that it is.

B) So you knowingly made a bad choice(with the permission of your parents), you only have your self to blame and now you want to take the choice from everyone, do I have it right?

The same could be said of the proprietors of Rawesome, who knowingly broke the law, more than once. Should I feel bad that they are in prison because they made an illegal choice?

A) The people that drink it feel that it does offer health benefits.
B) Are you also advocating for prohibition? Because drinking alcohol also adds a lot of unnecessary risk.
C) I don't like raw milk, but I imagine the people who want it will still find a way to get it....And if they're forced to do something extreme, like order it from one of our 3rd world American investments, it will probably drive those risk through the roof. Smallpox anyone? (Of course the people who have had cow pox will most likely be immune, does that count as a health benefit? )
[/quote]


A) While I don't think that there are health benefits to raw milk over pasteurized, I'm with you that people should be allowed to make choices about what they put into their bodies. Especially in the case of a private co-op, provided that the dairy only provides raw milk, clearly marketed as such, from that set of equipment.

B) That may not be the best example. The risk from alcohol comes from how much you drink and how often, as well as what you do while drunk (which are choices you can make). With something like raw milk, your choices are irrelevant to the dangers involved. There is no way to know in advance that your milk may be infected by live bacteria unless it is sterilized or otherwise treated.

C) I think that the point of the regulation is that no one can accidentally stumble across unpasteurized milk at the store. The product is standardized, and any legally imported foodstuffs have to meet customs guidelines which resist such things like disease outbreaks. You have to really like raw milk to import it from 3rd world countries. It would be a lot of trouble and not cheap (raw milk doesn't last all that long).

For children(or the elderly) it's not something to just wait and see, give water and hope it all works out...sometimes antibiotic treatment is needed(and couldn't hurt). (Am I the only one that remembers the Jack in the Box E. coli Outbreak? Four kids died painfully from hemolytic uremic syndrome )

You don't mess around when it comes to kids. Especially not three days. Your kids dying isn't something that happens to other people. Don't ever get the mindset that it is.

Actually, a lot of people mess around with kids' safety. Parents used to give their toddlers soothing syrups, which was mostly just loading them up with opium. And parents making high risk choices today, like giving kids raw milk or not getting vaccinations, are doing the same. Not to mention that the consequences of these choices can put other people at risk as well. A kid who gets an infection from their raw milk may not even get sick, but could pass the infection on to other kids who have never been exposed to raw milk at all.

Giving out antibiotics randomly can absolutely hurt. The frivolous use of antibiotics has given rise to various strains of antibiotic-resistant bacteria, degrading our ability to treat them and making them significantly more dangerous and expensive than before. Not to mention that things like invasive surgery are riskier as well as a result.

It's funny that you would mention the E. coli outbreak at Jack in the Box, as it was the result of the lack of meeting government food safety standards and an internal corporate decision not to cook their meat to the standard. Additionally, E. coli is an infection that is not much improved with antibiotic treatment.

[quote name='Prefect' timestamp='1312968821' post='4847091']
This is exactly the opposite of what mainstream economists say should happen, but it is perfectly consistent with the views of Modern Monetary Theory. In a fiat money system, the monetarily sovereign government is clearly in charge, and the financial markets are at its mercy.

It's actually what mainstream economists would expect. This isn't the Fed messing with bonds (QE2 is over), it's fear in the market.
[/quote]

I guess it's who you consider mainstream. The so-called experts in the media were falling over themselves with worries that the US government would have to pay higher interest rates as a result of the downgrade. It's good to see that there are people out there who get it at least partially, but even the blog you linked to doesn't seem to get that the US government is in a monopoly position and can therefore do pretty much whatever the hell it wants to do (not that that would necessarily be wise, but stopping politicians from doing stupid things is a political problem, not an economic one).

[quote name='Luckless' timestamp='1312985302' post='4847162']I was well aware it was unpasteurized. After all it is very hard to have it pasteurized between the time you personally hand milk the cow, and the time you drink it right from the bucket moments later. (A not only clean bucket, but a freshly sterilized one.)

I only asked because in your story you said you were a kid. I would hate to think that a farm cut your family out of the mix and deceived you into taking that risk.

The government here doesn't prevent me from buying the product that could have fixed this problem from day one, they actually require me to buy it. Pasteurized milk.

A) I only ask because I couldn't understand why your parents would let you suffer violently throwing up for most of a week. I figured your family was poor, nothing to be ashamed of, and couldn't afford to go to the hospital and get prescription meds.
B) So you knowingly made a bad choice(with the permission of your parents), you only have your self to blame and now you want to take the choice from everyone, do I have it right?

[/quote]

First off, why would you assume that I wasn't being treated? The fact that I'm alive here would suggest that I was treated after being violently ill for that length of time. (I'm Canadian, health care like that is far less of an issue.) If I wasn't being treated, then I most likely would have died, and came fairly close to it.


Second, I didn't knowingly make a bad choice. It was fresh milk, from an apparently healthy cow that had been properly washed, and had been poured into a correctly sterilized bucket. But I clearly didn't knowningly make a bad choice because milk straight from the cow is good for you! It is safe, and far better than that processed stuff they sell in the supermarkets, because it is natural, and healthier, and all around is completely better for you than drinking pasteurized milk. Or at least that is what raw milk supporters would have you believe despite any solid basis for those claims. They frequently also forget the whole "You are 1000+ times more likely to become violently, even dangerously, ill from drinking unpasteurized milk." when starting on their speel.

And the issue isn't that people wanting to buy this put just themselves in danger. That isn't the case. They put others around them in danger as well, because, surprise! Stuff that can be transmitted through tainted milk can also be passed between humans. It is a needless public health risk, and therefore the sale of unpasteurized milk illegal in many areas.

The same could be said of the proprietors of Rawesome, who knowingly broke the law, more than once. Should I feel bad that they are in prison because they made an illegal choice?

They haven't been convicted of anything and most likely they will win in the end(after long court battle). You should feel bad because this is a giant waste of money that we badly, badly need and this is an abuse of power. One of many.

A) While I don't think that there are health benefits to raw milk over pasteurized

I'm a compulsive contrarian so: They could get a stronger immune system from drinking that sh@t and constantly getting sick?

I think that the point of the regulation is that no one can accidentally stumble across unpasteurized milk at the store.

If you drink god knows what out of an unlabeled bottle, don't you deserve what you get? Natural selection is only a theory if you don't let it happen(dtms).

Actually, a lot of people mess around with kids' safety. Parents used to give their toddlers soothing syrups, which was mostly just loading them up with opium. And parents making high risk choices today, like giving kids raw milk or not getting vaccinations, are doing the same. Not to mention that the consequences of these choices can put other people at risk as well.

I think the little fat f@ckers should be confiscated and raised like spartans. Raise them so they could totally kick the sh@t out of those braggadocios drug addicted african kids with their AK-47s and their fanciful stories of genocide. As it stands, our fatty fat fat kids can't read or write, much less clear a village. It's disgraceful.

A kid who gets an infection from their raw milk may not even get sick, but could pass the infection on to other kids who have never been exposed to raw milk at all.

Oh tell me about it, you just know that when you come in contact with these little fat asses that you're going to get sick. They are so dirty. And their owners...err parents don't even keep them in a cage.

Giving out antibiotics randomly can absolutely hurt. The frivolous use of antibiotics has given rise to various strains of antibiotic-resistant bacteria, degrading our ability to treat them and making them significantly more dangerous and expensive than before. Not to mention that things like invasive surgery are riskier as well as a result.

We were talking about a kid throwing his guts up, from at the time god knows what, for most of a week.

I agree with your point here, but I think that boat sailed a long time ago. People love their antibiotics.

It's funny that you would mention the E. coli outbreak at Jack in the Box, as it was the result of the lack of meeting government food safety standards and an internal corporate decision not to cook their meat to the standard.

If you eat a raw hamburger or allow your kids to eat a raw hamburger....Who really is to blame?

Additionally, E. coli is an infection that is not much improved with antibiotic treatment.

I think he said his parents learned what it was after it was over. (Up till then they were just flying blind)

[quote name='Khaiy' timestamp='1313022893' post='4847423']
The same could be said of the proprietors of Rawesome, who knowingly broke the law, more than once. Should I feel bad that they are in prison because they made an illegal choice?

They haven't been convicted of anything and most likely they will win in the end(after long court battle). You should feel bad because this is a giant waste of money that we badly, badly need and this is an abuse of power. One of many.

A) While I don't think that there are health benefits to raw milk over pasteurized

I'm a compulsive contrarian so: They could get a stronger immune system from drinking that sh@t and constantly getting sick?

I think that the point of the regulation is that no one can accidentally stumble across unpasteurized milk at the store.

If you drink god knows what out of an unlabeled bottle, don't you deserve what you get? Natural selection is only a theory if you don't let it happen(dtms).

Actually, a lot of people mess around with kids' safety. Parents used to give their toddlers soothing syrups, which was mostly just loading them up with opium. And parents making high risk choices today, like giving kids raw milk or not getting vaccinations, are doing the same. Not to mention that the consequences of these choices can put other people at risk as well.

I think the little fat f@ckers should be confiscated and raised like spartans. Raise them so they could totally kick the sh@t out of those braggadocios drug addicted african kids with their AK-47s and their fanciful stories of genocide. As it stands, our fatty fat fat kids can't read or write, much less clear a village. It's disgraceful.

A kid who gets an infection from their raw milk may not even get sick, but could pass the infection on to other kids who have never been exposed to raw milk at all.

Oh tell me about it, you just know that when you come in contact with these little fat asses that you're going to get sick. They are so dirty. And their owners...err parents don't even keep them in a cage.

Giving out antibiotics randomly can absolutely hurt. The frivolous use of antibiotics has given rise to various strains of antibiotic-resistant bacteria, degrading our ability to treat them and making them significantly more dangerous and expensive than before. Not to mention that things like invasive surgery are riskier as well as a result.

We were talking about a kid throwing his guts up, from at the time god knows what, for most of a week.

I agree with your point here, but I think that boat sailed a long time ago. People love their antibiotics.

It's funny that you would mention the E. coli outbreak at Jack in the Box, as it was the result of the lack of meeting government food safety standards and an internal corporate decision not to cook their meat to the standard.

If you eat a raw hamburger or allow your kids to eat a raw hamburger....Who really is to blame?

Additionally, E. coli is an infection that is not much improved with antibiotic treatment.

I think he said his parents learned what it was after it was over. (Up till then they were just flying blind)
[/quote]

I like how it looks like he's arguing with himself for half that post.

I like how it looks like he's arguing with himself for half that post.

And the part that I find really amusing is that I felt embarrassed when I noticed I wrote i/ instead of /i for a tag.

I like how it looks like he's arguing with himself for half that post.

Woops, cut and paste and lack of sleep can really bite you sometimes, am I right? Thx, for the spot.

First off, why would you assume that I wasn't being treated?

I dunno, for some reason I just jumped to the conclusion that your family was one of those type who treated their kids like they're expendable. I'm sry for making that erroneous leap. Please accept my apology.