Is it just me, or does the modern gaming press pretty much determine what does and doesn''t become successful? How many people can remember the last time they saw a box for a side-scroller? (Last one I remember was Jazz Jackrabbit 2 -- underrated, IMHO.) Point-and-click adventures? Top-down shooters? Why are these genres considered "dead" when even the gaming press includes examples in their top x of all time lists? If there are so many classics to be found -- games which are still fun today -- why then, does no one seem to be doing them? At least ... On a consumer level. What genres do you think are dead, and why? What do you think can be done to revive them, from a design standpoint? John

Yeah what you''re saying is true. I miss a lot of the old side scrollers and topdown shooters. Actually, I''m making a topdown shooter right now Those genres are not dead in my opinion. What''s happening is most publishers are targeting the hardcore gamer, who doesn''t play those games. There are many people who''d like to see side scrollers make a comeback, I''m sure I''m not the only one.

This has been said a lot of times already, but look at how many units Rollercoaster Tycoon sold. It wasn''t some fancy shmancy 3D game at all, and sold more than most of the new games using a state-of-the-art 3D engine. So the genres aren''t dead, it''s just the publishers who''re stupid, and who''re trying to dictate to people what they should look for in a game. I think once the technology levels out we''ll finally see a return to the times where games competed on gameplay and not graphics.

Hmmm... Expendable, Star Wars the Phantom Menace... Both are top-down shooters

Ronin:

I never heard of Expendable, and avoided all the Phantom Menace-branded stuff, so didn''t know about that one either. I''ll see if I can find something on Expendable, though ... Have a URL I could check out?

Supernova:

I really miss platformers. I still fire up Commander Keen every now and then.

http://www.rage.com/html/expend.asp

Pretty fun game if you want some mindless action.

I miss 2D platformers as well. Some 3D platforms are really great, but even the really good ones (Mario, Rayman, Soul Reaver, etc) have a whole different feel than the 2D ones of the 16bit era...Oh well, I guess that''s why SNES/Genesis emulators were invented...

Yeah, I agree that some 3D games are awesome. Soul Reaver was great, and Black & White is also very good. But those are exceptions unfortunately. People making 3D games for the most part seem to have this notion that because the game is 3D it doesn''t need to have gameplay. Which is very unfortunate.

I agree Soul Reaver was a good game, but Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain, which Soul Reaver was the sequel to, was 500 times better. And Zelda''s game for 64 suck, the 2D ones were better. Mario Tennis for Virtual Boy was awsome. Final Fantasy 7 and 9 were great 3D games, the best games ever in my opinion. Truly, the graphics dont matter(unless its ps2''s NBA Streets vs Pacman for NES), as long as the game is good, and the graphics re decent, it can reach the top of my list.

"I''ve sparred with creatures from the nine hells themselves... I barely plan on breaking a sweat here, today."~Drizzt Do''Urden

On gameplay: Once upon a time, gameplay was the primary focus. Now, it does seem that it''s taking a back seat to eye- and ear-candy, at least in the consumer channel. With the exception of 3-D shooters (and them primarily because you can customize the controls so readily) and driving games, gameplay really does seem to lack in many titles.

Even some shooters, which give you too many controls, lack gameplay. I really dug Jedi Knight as a game, but was never able to compete effectively online, because I couldn''t use the mouse. Too many controls required both my hands on the keyboard.

Bear in mind that I don''t want to be bashing 3-D here: I like a good FPS (I''m reinstalling Q3 in the background as I type this), but I have to wonder if that, RTS and big-name licensed sports games are all that''s going to get a green light these days. Even NFS5 was a serious disappointment -- I felt everything was much better in NFS4, including the graphics!

Sounds like opportunity knocking.

The posters seem to have a hankering for some of the genres that are not being produced by the big game companies. If follows that there are some game players who have similar desires. Maybe not a majority of gamers, but certainly some.

If you can create a *good* game that fits in that genre, the you have something that you can sell to that audience. Smaller niche audiences, online sales and indy development go hand in hand in hand.

Go for it!

Point-and-Click Adventures are dead. The problem those games got where that it was very difficult to make the game challenging, but not frustrating. When a PnCA was too easy, you could see the ending after a few hours and when it was to difficult you''d not see it ever.

The positve aspects of PnCA are reincarnated in the (MMO)RPGs.