I happen to lead a WoW RP guild on Sporeggar server for 2 years and I'm deeply convinced that MMOG
need to step up to the next level, I believe the whole gaming industry needs a head turn actually but lets
stick to the point of this conversation which is of course player created quests! The idea sounds amazing
for me and I believe it's doable! Here is how:

1. FIRST RELEASE

As everything in life must progress from point a to point b to point c etc in order to be controllable and
easy to follow its progress, same must go for the "player created quests". This means that at first this privilege
must be given to as few people in game as possible.

2. THE GUILD MASTER

Everyone has a guild these days it's true but, lets just give "player created quest" ability to the guild masters of
a Role playing realm in a game like WoW just to set an example! The guild master of an RP
guild follows 2 basic things:

a. His character scenario line
b. Guild's scenario line

Now we assume there will be an in game quest editor or interface of some sort. This editor must include:

a. Specify quest level (You create a lvl 5 quest better suited to lvl 5 players etc)
b. Drop down menu with areas of operation (Elwynn forest f.e.)
c. Drop down menu with the "character" of the quest (Will it be gathering? killing? both? other kind?)
d. Drop down menu with the mobs of that area (wolf, spider etc)
e. Loot target if any (teeth, leather, random items)

It can go far more complicated like adding interactive elements like a guard that shouts a specific phrase
when you go to X spot etc but I believe it's irrelevant to go that way at this point.

3. DEALING XP

Since the guild master creates a lvl 5 quest, the algorithm of the "player quest editor" will set a fix value that
equals to that quest lvl. So we have a lvl X player doing a lvl 5 quest granting him a prefix 100 xp points. Giving utter
control to a player over XP or items will result to a disaster! We people luck self control and this is an issue that needs
conversation in another forum...

4. DEALING ITEM REWARDS

Just like XP same goes for item rewards. A lvl 5 quest will have a prefix variety of items for the guild master to choose.
Those items could be also editable but in such way that the attributes would keep a certain power and not exceed their
current lvl power.

5. ROLE PLAYING SERVER PRIVILEGE (at least for starters)

I focus in RP realms because of the story behind each player & guild.
So, a player entering a realm has 3 options:

a. Go the standard way: NPC quests - raiding - PvPing (go independent)
b. Create a guild
c. Join a guild

Following rout a. will have him lvl up like everybody else, creating a guild will put him more into a position to mostly
entertain others while joining a guild will allow him to experience an almost unique way of lvling up! And this is something
that people usually like: go down a path that others have not. Imagine doing a quest based on an RP guild event. This
event will be one time only! Makes the player that participates in it feel unique!

"Player created quests" need to be supported by other things as well in order to become viable and worth living but the
most important thing is what some of you mentioned above: The player behind quest editor. Does he have the time and enthusiasm
to be creative and constructive? Does he even have the time? I see people don't give a dime about what quest story say, they only click
accept quest and go for XP. This can change in a good RP realm for once.

Anyhow, I have 3 kids and doing 2 jobs to make it through. I mostly reply from my cellphone while at work during break time. I still believe
it's doable but we need to make an effort and get it rolling, start testing it and see what other aspects need fixing as well as what problems
will rise. Putting it to the test gives the best results. Theory is good to start with but will never get you to completion.

[font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2]@Luckless

Question 1: Are all the "levels" available a pre-set of levels that already exist in the game?[/font]
Question 2: Can you create multiple quests for the same level? For example, lets say there is a level called "Dragon Cave". Can every single player create a quest using that specific level?
Question 3: How do you differentiate between one "Dragon Cave" level from another?
Scenario: A guild of max-leveled players each creates 1 high-level quest for "Dragon Cave". Lets assume there are 10 players online, and all of them create 1 quest each, which means there are in total 10 quests available for the same "Dragon Cave" level. Each guild member can accept 9 quests each (I'm assuming in your system you can't make your own quest and also accept it). Each quest makers assigns 10 "Level 20 Dragons" in their quests. The guild have no problem facing 10x "Level 20 Dragons" and blows through the level, killing every single dragon. They return to hand-in their quest completion. How do the reward come into play?
Reward 1: They can turn in all 9 quests at once. This means they only need to blow through the "Dragon Cave" level once to have 9 times the reward.
Reward 2: They can only turn in 1 quest per "Dungeon Cave" level clear. (Refer to question 3)

@Jimakoma

Question 1a: Can a player accept quests from any and all guild master(s)?
Question 1b: If the answer to Question 1a is yes, how do you differentiate between quests which requires the player to do the exact same thing between different guildmasters?
Question 2a: Can guildmasters accept the quest that they assign?
Question 2b: If the answer to Question 2a is no, what is stopping said guildmaster from creating his own quests and accepting them him/herself?
Question 3: What determines a "Quest Level"?


Scenario: Lets say a guild want to "help" its members level quicker. The guild master assigns quest based on the new member's level. Lets assume the new member is a Level 30 Character. In-game, there is a level 30 monster that drops items like "Spider Threads", "Spider Legs" and "Spider Goo" at 30% drop rate each. Lets call that monster "Giant Spider". The guildmaster can assign the following quests:

1) Kill 30 Giant Spiders.
2) Collect 5 Spider Threads.
3) Collec 5 Spider Legs.
4) Collect 5 Spider Goo.

The 4 quests are all marked as "Level 30 Quests" because the monster that drops the item is a "Level 30" monster (If thats not the case, how do you mark a quest as any given level?). That means the new member only need to kill 30 Giant Spiders to collect the reward for all 4 "Level 30 Quests". Now, if all of those quests are "Level 30 Quests", that means the guildmaster can provide a "Level 30 Reward". From your example of 100xp for a "Level 5 Quest", completing a "Level 30 Quest" results in (lets assume) 600xp per quest completion. That gives the new member 2,400xp from just doing a single quest of "Kill 30 Giant Spiders" and turning in all the drops from said monster.

Now, what if the new member can also accept quests assigned by another guildmaster? The guildmaster can assign the same quest of "Kill 30 Giant Spiders" and give the new member an additional 600xp for free. IF 10 guildmasters work together, a new member can receive 6,000xp just from killing 30 Giant Spiders.

Lets take this to the extreme: How do you define the "Level" of a quest? If, in the example I have given, the quest is determined by the "Monster Level" that the players need to kill to complete the quest, this can be easily abused. I can assign a quest whereby a player only needs to kill 1 Giant Spider to earn the 600xp. In the scenario where 10 guildmasters work together, the player only need to kill 1 Giant Spider for 6,000xp. If the area has a number of "Level 30 Monsters", the guildmasters can assign 1 Quest per monster, and players only need to venture into the place and kill 1 monster of every type to gain a large XP reward.

Applying this to endgame quests, I (as a guildmaster) can assign a high-level quest for the players to farm items. Even if the reward is restricted by the drop-down menu, it doesn't stop me (and the other 9 collaborating guildmasters) to create a simple high-level quest where our members can farm the quest reward item and sell it off for gold. Alternatively, if quest-creator can reward gold for quest completion, we can create simple high-level quests for our members to quickly gain alot of gold. (Like "Kill 1 Level 60 Monster with relatively low HP").

Answer 1a: A player must be limited to receive quests from one guild master
(at least this is how we should start it in order to control the outcome and draw the right conclusions)
A player must review the realm guilds to see what looks more interesting according to his taste and join
to live the unique indeed experience!

Answer 2a: A guild master can follow the quests he has designed but I think it will be sort of a spoiler
for him having set the rewards himself and all. Although leveling up your character on quests that somewhat
form your characters background story and RPing while doing them sounds awesome. Another good thing is
that the person who wants to become a guild master will have to think twice (always talking about an RP guild
in an RP realm). This is good in my opinion since people who become guild masters will be more responsible,
forming a great RP environment and a great realm to play in!

Answer 3: This is a good point there! My 1a answer eliminates that possibility though. Yet you still got a good point
concerning the 4 quests yielding 2, 400 xp. Limitation in the quest editor is the answer. A guild master creates a quest
with giant spider? Fine, but it will be either to achieve 5/5 giant spider kills or collect 5/5 spider threads etc. He will not be
allowed to have a quest about giant spider kills and another quest about collecting spider threads 5/5.
Another method that leads into balanced gameplay, would be to have those two quests (spider threads and spider kills)
allowed but to be broken down with another quest in between.

We as developers, despite the fact that we need to create great graphics and stories, need to lead the players into creative and
constructive gameplay. Lets do it! Lets push players towards that direction. Make addictive games but let them be as creative
as possible, keep their mind sharp!

P.S I must insist and say again that "player created quests" must be applied in an RP server or a strictly RP game.

[font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"]@Luckless

Question 1: Are all the "levels" available a pre-set of levels that already exist in the game?[/font]
Question 2: Can you create multiple quests for the same level? For example, lets say there is a level called "Dragon Cave". Can every single player create a quest using that specific level?
Question 3: How do you differentiate between one "Dragon Cave" level from another?
Scenario: A guild of max-leveled players each creates 1 high-level quest for "Dragon Cave". Lets assume there are 10 players online, and all of them create 1 quest each, which means there are in total 10 quests available for the same "Dragon Cave" level. Each guild member can accept 9 quests each (I'm assuming in your system you can't make your own quest and also accept it). Each quest makers assigns 10 "Level 20 Dragons" in their quests. The guild have no problem facing 10x "Level 20 Dragons" and blows through the level, killing every single dragon. They return to hand-in their quest completion. How do the reward come into play?
Reward 1: They can turn in all 9 quests at once. This means they only need to blow through the "Dragon Cave" level once to have 9 times the reward.
Reward 2: They can only turn in 1 quest per "Dungeon Cave" level clear. (Refer to question 3)

A1/A2:

I was thinking more along the lines of you give the users a pile of "Lego Pieces", and they use them to build their own 'unique' levels. If you want to build something with caves, then you load up the cave set that contains premade meshes that can link with each other. (Possibly have a procedural seam stitching method so you can change the angles and stuff.)

So I, as a player, sit down to make a level. I want it really simple, I have a really long hallway that is made up of a few pieces of standard hallway segments. These lead to a room that splits into 3 more hallways. Left goes to what will be a barracks, right goes through a store room, straight ahead goes to the end room that contains the big loot. I add more hallways from the barracks and store room that loop around and connect into the big loot room as well. Now the player has 3 paths they can take.

However that produces a rather dull looking level, so I start filling the area with 'props'. Static or non-static elements like tables, chairs, boxes, piles of trash, graffiti on the walls, cobwebs, etc. (Some elements, like cobwebs, might be a simple GUI indicator, and the actual web would be procedurally generated so the user doesn't have to sit there and try to make things line up perfectly and be sure something isn't randomly poking through a wall on the other side, etc.)

Then I add my lights, or not, so the user can either see, or be forced to bring a light of his own along.

After that I add in the monsters/mobs/challenges. In the Barracks I place 20 bad guys with big axes and small brains. In the store room I place 2 guys and an alarm switch. (And link the switch to the squad in the Barracks, and the switch to the two guys in the store room. This makes the 2 guys attempt to get to the switch if they spot the players, which causes the Barracks Mob to rush over and start a patrol of the level to find and kill the players.)

Additionally I place a magical trap in the middle hallway that leads to the treasure, and scatter a few simple locked doors around the level. (And maybe I link some of the doors to the Barracks with a property flag so a few guards will wander out to 'figure out what that noise was' if your big fighter type bashes in the doors closer to them. Or possibly this can be a procedurally based option.)

Finally I run the level through a calculator program, and it spits out my base options on possible loot. A min and max value that can be spread over different 'loot' sections. I can then spend that loot value on a few specific items that have a chance to spawn: Such as making a sword that has +1 flaming damage, a ring of +1 stealth, or a wand of +1 fireball, etc, and spend the rest of the value on a chest of gold coins.



A3: How to tell the difference between one level and the next? Each player would have to pick out/buy a location for their level to be built, basically the doorway in the 'real world' of the game that links to their quest/dungeon. These would be limited, and only so many per each player would be allowed.

Scenario: Each player's quest would be 'different' from the others, even if they're perfect cookie cutters of each other, so it would be no different from the party accepting 9 other quests in the normal world. Even if the quests are 100% identical in terms of content, they are each unique in terms of their identifier and starting location. Player "Bob" would have "Bob's Dragon Cave" that is a separate quest from Player "Bill" with his "Bill's Dragon Cave". You'll have to actually complete "Bob's Dragon Cave" to get the reward for the first one, then "Bill's Dragon Cave" to get the reward for the second one, etc. Doing just one of them would have zero effect on completing the others the same as with your stock and standard quests. Completing "Kill the rats in the basement" doesn't give you the reward for "Kill the Kobols in the basement" of current games, does it?



And to avoid abuse, make it so the levels a player can make are going to be at his own or lower level. Make them as something they do to show off to other users, not as something they can try and game for their own character's reward. It gives something for the creative types to do, and you could go so far as to make part of the game centred around creation, and having contests.

Anyone who can get a character in the game to the right levels can then start building basic quests. They'll be limited in what options they have to put in them, and have limited rewards, etc, but allow players to vote on them. Creators who consistently rank high on the votes can be 'upgraded' to a new level of creator, that unlocks more stuff for them to play with. Have a few layers of this and then the Creators can get to a level where the Devs themselves are judging the work so they have a chance of moving even higher.

Just picture it from a business standpoint. You can get a whole team of talented content creators producing whole new sections of your game that your fan base loves, and they're paying YOU for the privilege,...




So, in short: Give the players tools to create new puzzles/challenges for lower level players as a way of them showing off just how cool they are. Limit the quest reward potential for 'basic' users, and have layers of Creator status that unlock better and better tools and reward potentials. (And make it clear that abuse of high rank creator privileges means they lose them.) Reward good content in some way, prizes/ranks, etc, and have the community expand the game content for you.

For loot, why not use a Diablo2 type randomization? Drops based on rolls of dice with modifiers for difficulty. This eliminates guild leaders custom-designing loot that perfectly compliments a player's existing gear.

Another idea: let guilds create an "initiation" quest, for one-time completion by new joins, with a directly customizable reward that shows membership in the guild. Items can be created using attribute points like many pen and paper player characters, perhaps with customized graphics as well.

Personally I think letting the users focus the reward into something of their own design is actually a good idea if you go with a User Creator Level. This way only trusted designers get to place in the best stuff, and have the option to string their own quests together in small story arcs.

Allow the purely random loot to be more powerful, but don't completely block users from detailing what kind of prize is allowed.

My question is how many people can accept your quest? If you have a limit to how many people can choose to do your quest then it won't work. Players would be able to accept quests and just sit on them, maybe they wont ever complete them. Even if you put a time limit for the quest and if they didn't do it within a certain time it vanishes from their quest list. They could just go back and pick it up again. If you want to fix that then you would have to make it so if they fail your quest once they cant do it again. What if you want to cancel a quest you have posted? If a player is in the middle of doing your quest you created and it is then canceled they are going to be pissed because they expected to be rewarded for the work they put in. This concept you have for player made quests has a lot of flaws and unanswered questions right now.