The common practice among game developers seems to entail avoiding suggestion threads/discussions/emails due to the potential for legal backlash over ownership of those ideas. Makes sense.
So, here is what I was thinking. What if, in my forum, I created a room specifically for suggestions, and only members of an "Idea Squad" forum group could post there? My thought is that if I screen members initially and have them agree to relinquish ownership of all their suggestions, I can safely browse that idea room for pressing issues or new features. Perhaps, members outside the group can read the suggestions and vote them up/down.
Registering in forums often involves agreeing to a big Terms of Use. I can't imagine a similar ToS for the group being any less legally binding (users would have to apply and be manually approved). Thoughts on this? Any glaring problems here still?
Amateurs practice until they do it right.Professionals practice until they never do it wrong.
Your idea would probably insulate you, provided that your terms of service were written in a legally adequate way.
But I don't know how big of a problem this would really be. There are a lot of different reasons that developers don't accept public input, and my impression is that the potential legal trouble is a pretty small part of that behavior.
It's hard to claim any legal ownership of a game idea. There are countless games which are all variations on the same theme or even outright clones of each other. Someone on a forum saying "I think there should be a high score table" isn't going to have much chance of suing you successfully if you do include such a feature, even if you did so only because you received that suggestion. That said, you can be sued by anyone at any time for any reason, whether the suit is solid or frivolous.
There are plenty of games that have benefitted from user input, and developers have courted that input in order to serve their fans and to make their games better. One of the Civ 4 expansions was released with a whole user-created mod as a feature, for example.
Take a look at EgoSoft's X3-- they have worked hard to cultivate an avid fan base, hosting entire forums for unofficial mods and releasing tools for the players to make their own more easily. Periodically the most popular of those mods were combined and released as official packs, endorsed by the company itself. This practice really added to the play experience, opening up whole new possibilities that the developers probably never even dreamed of, and really extended the life of the game for me and for many other players. I don't remember exactly, since my own game is so heavily modded anyways, but I believe the expansion pack for X3 also folded in several of the most popular mods as part of the new vanilla game experience.
Your response intrigues me. I guess I just happened to be in communities where the consensus is that the developers want to legally protect themselves.
Yeah, for general aesthetic changes or extra controls/leaderboards/whatever, it's not big deal taking suggestions from fans. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of actual game ideas (new quests, characters, loot, etc.). Your Civ 4 example would be relevant here. Did the dev/publisher pay the community? Or was it just an honor to be included in the expansion?
Amateurs practice until they do it right.Professionals practice until they never do it wrong.
It's about avoiding design by committee, no game developer worth his money will take a chance on having gamers design a game "the way they want it" - believe it or not, those "ideas" aren't what game design is about. Taking structured feedback on specific implemented ideas is the way to go if you want to involve the community beyond a PR trick. Most gamers don't even know what they want in a game, and it's the game designer's job to figure that out. Community input is, of course, important - but that should never, ever, be allowed to dictate what goes into a game.
After all, if WoW or similar games followed that structure they would have fallen apart long ago - half the players want to nerf the other half, and vice-versa, leading to endless "debates" with little merit. Same goes on in SC2 forums and can be seen in pretty much any competitive game. Even in cooperative games there will always be some who are happy with the way things are because they've learnt to exploit the system and others will be unhappy because they have not. Once again, without a firm design hand, it all falls apart fairly easily.
"I will personally burn everything I've made to the fucking ground if I think I can catch them in the flames."
~ Gabe
"I don't mean to rush you but you are keeping two civilizations waiting!"
~ Cavil, BSG.
"If it's really important to you that other people follow your True Brace Style, it just indicates you're inexperienced. Go find something productive to do."
[size=2]~ Bregma
"Well, you're not alone.
There's a club for people like that. It's called Everybody and we meet at the bar[size=2]."
I agree DD. I am not looking to shift all this design power into the hands of fans. I'm more concerned about someone coming up with a great idea, for example, of one sword: its name, origin, specs, attributes, etc. I say, "Hey, I like that!" So I put it in, but then I start getting nagged for credit, payment, etc. I am not about to let the entire game be driven by fans entirely.
Amateurs practice until they do it right.Professionals practice until they never do it wrong.
How about, to post in the suggestion forums they have to agree to a little Terms of Use which tells them that in posting their idea they relinquish any rights to it?
I want to help design a "sandpark" MMO. Optional interactive story with quests and deeply characterized NPCs, plus sandbox elements like player-craftable housing and lots of other crafting. If you are starting a design of this type, please PM me. I also love pet-breeding games.
How about, to post in the suggestion forums they have to agree to a little Terms of Use which tells them that in posting their idea they relinquish any rights to it?
That is basically what I am aiming for. Would you create a group for that? Or would you just put a rule about it up top?
Amateurs practice until they do it right.Professionals practice until they never do it wrong.
[quote name='sunandshadow' timestamp='1307922364' post='4822546']
How about, to post in the suggestion forums they have to agree to a little Terms of Use which tells them that in posting their idea they relinquish any rights to it?
That is basically what I am aiming for. Would you create a group for that? Or would you just put a rule about it up top?
[/quote]
Put it in the terms of service for the message board itself, it doesn't have to be specific to the suggestions forum. (You really want the right to use anything posted on your messageboard for any reasons you see fit)
[size="1"]I don't suffer from insanity, I'm enjoying every minute of it.
The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas!
Put it in the terms of service for the message board itself, it doesn't have to be specific to the suggestions forum. (You really want the right to use anything posted on your messageboard for any reasons you see fit)
You're fine, legally, if you do what the above posters described regarding a forum ToS agreement. Lots of companies use some kind of suggestion forum for user feedback, and some of that feedback (likely a very, very small percentage) eventually does influence the game's evolution.
You can also look at user mods being integrated into games. For example, World of Warcraft has, over time, integrated a lot of UI features that were first introduced in mods (raid frames, threat meters, quest tracking, the list goes on). DotA spawned a whole new genre of arena-based gameplay, and Minecraft regularly takes user-designed content and integrates it into the game.
