So I figured I would just ask. Are any of you familiar with the major scale modes? I'm trying to learn the voice or tonality of each mode. Google gives a bunch of crap that didn't help me. So either I'm looking for the wrong thing or I have overlooked something. Do I play C major and then D dorian to get the dorian sound while improvising or C dorian? I noticed a certain tone quality with the C major and D dorian together. I also try to hit, or accent the tone/not differences too. For example, I would end a lick on the 3b or play the 3b more often. Any ways, its just something I've been struggling with and I wondered if any of you would know.

So, just to be clear, the D Dorian that you're talking about is the scale that contains all of the same notes as C major scale, but starts on D instead of C, yes? If so, there's nothing weird about modulating from C major to D Dorian in exactly the same way you'd modulate from C major to the relative A minor (which is also "Aeolian mode"); you're just changing the tonal center. The Dorian mode might not be considered as closely related as the Aeolian mode, but I'm not sure. The alternative (C major to C Dorian) is also not at all weird; that's called a parallel key modulation. I don't think there's an answer to "do I do one or the other?"

Google gives a bunch of crap that didn't help me. So either I'm looking for the wrong thing or I have overlooked something.

unlikely.

Anyhow.. C major and D dorian share the same notes, so what you wrote doesn't make sense.

You should try to explain what you are trying to do, and in what music style. These are some possible scenario:

You are trying to improvise over a backing track or chord progression.. If you are in a In a Jazz context you can treat every chord differently, so if you have a Dm7, you can treat it as dorian and play D dorian (which, again, is like C major but with a strong emphasis on the D note).
If you are playing in a rock/pop context you're into what is called a "tonal" territory. In this case, chords aren't really all detached but (usually) are part of the same tonality. In this case, you can't turn things into "dorian" or "lydian" or whatever,it will just sound wrong.
If you are also writing the chord progression, then you can make it modal, by pointing out some notes instead of other notes. So a typical dorian progression would be something like: Dm Em F G. The chords all belong to the armonization of the C major scale but that Dm at the beginning (and hopefully a strong D note all around the melodic content) will make it dorian.

The best way to learn how a mode sounds is to have a simple backing track with one bass note, let's say a C. Now you improvise over this backing track using:

C major. This will sound "major" indeed. Think Beatles
Bb major. This will sound "dorian". Think jazzy fusion.
Ab major. This will sound "frigian". Think spanish bull fight music
G major. This will sound "lydian". Think Steve Vai/Frank Zappa/ Tarantella Napoletana
F major. This will sound "mixolidian". Think some kind of jazzy blues
Eb major. This will sound "minor" or "aeolic".. Think Lady Gaga/ Iron Maiden... lots of stuff
C# major. This will sound "locrian". Dont do it

So I figured I would just ask. Are any of you familiar with the major scale modes? I'm trying to learn the voice or tonality of each mode. Google gives a bunch of crap that didn't help me. So either I'm looking for the wrong thing or I have overlooked something. Do I play C major and then D dorian to get the dorian sound while improvising or C dorian? I noticed a certain tone quality with the C major and D dorian together. I also try to hit, or accent the tone/not differences too. For example, I would end a lick on the 3b or play the 3b more often. Any ways, its just something I've been struggling with and I wondered if any of you would know.

Assuming you're in the key of C, then you should play C dorian.


Writing melodies is about creating and releasing tension. The differences between C and C dorian are the bluesy 3b and 7b, which give it a minor feel in a major scale.(C minor is 1 3b 5 and C7 is 1 3 5 b7) You've got to start on the major notes, use the new notes on the dorian(tension), and end on major notes(release), so you're listener knows you're firmly in C and not moving to another key. If you end on the minor notes(3b), you're keeping the tension on, which may or not be good, depending on what you're planning.

[quote name='mind_wipe' timestamp='1303099071' post='4799747']
Google gives a bunch of crap that didn't help me. So either I'm looking for the wrong thing or I have overlooked something.

unlikely.

Anyhow.. C major and D dorian share the same notes, so what you wrote doesn't make sense.

You should try to explain what you are trying to do, and in what music style. These are some possible scenario:

You are trying to improvise over a backing track or chord progression.. If you are in a In a Jazz context you can treat every chord differently, so if you have a Dm7, you can treat it as dorian and play D dorian (which, again, is like C major but with a strong emphasis on the D note).
If you are playing in a rock/pop context you're into what is called a "tonal" territory. In this case, chords aren't really all detached but (usually) are part of the same tonality. In this case, you can't turn things into "dorian" or "lydian" or whatever,it will just sound wrong.
If you are also writing the chord progression, then you can make it modal, by pointing out some notes instead of other notes. So a typical dorian progression would be something like: Dm Em F G. The chords all belong to the armonization of the C major scale but that Dm at the beginning (and hopefully a strong D note all around the melodic content) will make it dorian.

The best way to learn how a mode sounds is to have a simple backing track with one bass note, let's say a C. Now you improvise over this backing track using:

C major. This will sound "major" indeed. Think Beatles
Bb major. This will sound "dorian". Think jazzy fusion.
Ab major. This will sound "frigian". Think spanish bull fight music
G major. This will sound "lydian". Think Steve Vai/Frank Zappa/ Tarantella Napoletana
F major. This will sound "mixolidian". Think some kind of jazzy blues
Eb major. This will sound "minor" or "aeolic".. Think Lady Gaga/ Iron Maiden... lots of stuff
C# major. This will sound "locrian". Dont do it
[/quote]

It's spelled phrygian no "frigian"! And there's no reason not to play Locrian and I will do it. Personally, I like the gothic sound of Locrian. I like diminished. More specifically, I like playing diminished arpeggios real fast. I think it sounds cool. What I'm asking for it the, what you called "tonal" territory I think. I know what the major scale is and I know what the modes. But what I am trying to teach my self is the tonal-mood, territory, sound quality, what have you, that each mode brings out with different chords.

[quote name='mind_wipe' timestamp='1303099071' post='4799747']
So I figured I would just ask. Are any of you familiar with the major scale modes? I'm trying to learn the voice or tonality of each mode. Google gives a bunch of crap that didn't help me. So either I'm looking for the wrong thing or I have overlooked something. Do I play C major and then D dorian to get the dorian sound while improvising or C dorian? I noticed a certain tone quality with the C major and D dorian together. I also try to hit, or accent the tone/not differences too. For example, I would end a lick on the 3b or play the 3b more often. Any ways, its just something I've been struggling with and I wondered if any of you would know.

Assuming you're in the key of C, then you should play C dorian.


Writing melodies is about creating and releasing tension. The differences between C and C dorian are the bluesy 3b and 7b, which give it a minor feel in a major scale.(C minor is 1 3b 5 and C7 is 1 3 5 b7) You've got to start on the major notes, use the new notes on the dorian(tension), and end on major notes(release), so you're listener knows you're firmly in C and not moving to another key. If you end on the minor notes(3b), you're keeping the tension on, which may or not be good, depending on what you're planning.
[/quote]

This is more along the lines of what I want. How you would take a chord or chord progression and get the "Dorian" sound. Because I've heard people play the different modes and heard the tonal qualities they speak of come out. But I seam to be having problems with it and it all sounds the same in a way. There is no distinctive tone or sound that pops out at me that says "Dorian", or "Phyrigian" or Ionian/Mixolydian.

I'm getting tired of the Penatonic and it's 7(5 + 2 slides) scales.... and the blues scale. The harmonic minor is my favorite because it has a more gothic, or seriously sad sound. All in all, I wanna get a specific tone out of my guitar and I'm trying to use the major scale and it's modes to reach that tone. I guess what I'm asking can't really be told I'd have to learn it though trial and error.

This is more along the lines of what I want. How you would take a chord or chord progression and get the "Dorian" sound. Because I've heard people play the different modes and heard the tonal qualities they speak of come out. But I seam to be having problems with it and it all sounds the same in a way. There is no distinctive tone or sound that pops out at me that says "Dorian", or "Phyrigian" or Ionian/Mixolydian....
I guess what I'm asking can't really be told I'd have to learn it though trial and error.

Basically.

The by ear and by theory camps are a bit of a false dilemma. Everyone plays by their ears, which is why 500 years of theory still fails to produce a good software composer.

When you listen, there's two qualities you should hear, the first is the dorian sound and the second is your sound. Of course everything a person writes has a same sound, because it was all written to one person's tastes. It's time to record your playing and learn to hear yourself. If you can hear yourself, you can then learn how to listen beyond yourself and hear what you're tying to hear, or even how to supress your tastes to bring out what you're looking for. An objectieve person, like a good teacher, can also help you.