[quote name='freeworld' timestamp='1298427442' post='4777808']
if were going to argue genres, sci-fi should be considered a theme more than a genre, it really does nothing to prepare you for how the story will play out. It basically just give away the types of things that will be in the movie. Sci-fi can be anything from steam punk to artsy fartsy, aslong as it has; outer space, extraterrestrials, future technology or simply takes place far into the future. Basically I'm just trying to say your opinion is extremely bias'd.

That's not even self-consistent -- artsy fartsy steam punk doesn't meet any of your requirements.

What makes something fit in the genre is whether or not it deals with the (real or imagined) influence of (real or imagined) technology on individuals or societies -- and that does relate to how the story will play out.

If it simply has technology, but doesn't focus on the human impact of that technology, then it's not sci-fi, no matter how many alien species or space armadas are present.
[/quote]

Hodgman, have you seen this? It's probably really poorly executed and has tons of flaws since I saw it something like 15 years ago when I was way too young to fully appreciate the theme (or the execution); however, as I saw it before The Twilight Zone, it's become a kind of a norm with which I approach sci-fi in general.

A summary of the first segment (the part that I remember most clearly): "A conservative African American politician must choose between his people's survival and appeasing his white colleagues when space aliens propose to share their profound knowledge in exchange for all black people on earth."

@Sunshine. I assume you mean that Danny Boyle's space slasher. Funny that, since I wouldn't even consider it sci-fi. The fact that you put someone trying murder someone else in space doesn't make it sci-fi in and of itself - that's just cutting people up in a different environment. To me, in order to ascend to real traditional sci-fi values, you need to transcend above anything that can just as well be achieved the comfort of your back yard or, better yet, have some social or emotional commentary in it*. You need to address more than just the environment. Avatar was about the parasitic nature of humanity. Starship Troopers is an anti-war/violence effort (like most Verhoeven films). Most Twilight Zone episodes are about different facets of human nature. Monsters is about American isolationism due to attitude, lack of understanding/misathropomorfisation and bad history. They Live is a political commentary of the Regan administration. Dark Star is a philosophical commentary of the nature of war. Flatliners, The Dead Zone and even Altered States are about the primal nature of the human psyche, either at the very beginning or at the moment of death. Jurassic Park is about the inevitability of disaster in any system. The Village is about the power of superstition and the need to maintain it to keep the illusion of control. The Terminator and A.I. and I, Robot are about the consequences of assigning too little constraint to a superior intellect while attempting to achieve increasingly perfect self-replication. Cube is about the human nature to fix a situation (and the futility of it) when no fix is needed. The Fly is about what human evolution is like and the fact that we're all monsters deep inside. Even Knowing (and I found the film very bland and devoid of any new/meaningful message; actually, after about 30 minutes I found it quite repulsive) is about a very fundamental question - about why we're here. And The Box is a rather rough-cut commentary of human existence, ambitions and the blinding (and deadly) nature of temptation. Like most sci-fi, The Box is about something while Sunshine, unfortunately, is not (I'm saying unfortunately, because I was really looking forward to something special in it). If I had to classify Sunshine, I'd say it's another PG-13 slasher horror flick.


* true, you might argue that what did, for instance, one of the greatest sci-fi movies of all time, Alien, have to do with social commentary? And the answer is, pretty much nothing. But compared to Sunshine, Alien had one thing that made a huge difference. It had a bloody alien - you couldn't do the same film in an office building, while Sunshine would probably have benefited from it. Ultimately, the sci-fi element of Sunshine was hardly necessary for the film itself.

@Sunshine. I assume you mean that Danny Boyle's space slasher. Funny that, since I wouldn't even consider it sci-fi. The fact that you put someone trying murder someone else in space doesn't make it sci-fi in and of itself - that's just cutting people up in a different environment. To me, in order to ascend to real traditional sci-fi values, you need to transcend above anything that can just as well be achieved the comfort of your back yard or, better yet, have some social or emotional commentary in it*. You need to address more than just the environment.

Did you see sunshine? It was immensely psychological. Went to great depths to show the repercussions of human isolation. Are you sure you aren't talking about super nova?

Sunshine had a LOT more interesting things to say about the human condition than the Box.

I really think you're thinking of the wrong movie or you never saw it, because it was pretty obvious.

>> Sunshine had a LOT more interesting things to say about the human condition than the Box.

Please, do elaborate.

FTR: it's a slasher in space.

>> Sunshine had a LOT more interesting things to say about the human condition than the Box.

Please, do elaborate.

FTR: it's a slasher in space.

It's not a slasher in space?

The whole point of the movie was how much a human's perception of what is important changes as they are brought closer and closer to realizing the awesomeness of nature while being isolated.

[SPOILERS]
at first you see this in the therapist who spends his days experiencing fractions of a percent of sunlight, which are still blindingly bright on the observation deck. He later kills himself by experiencing 100%, which is how the crew of the other spaceship also killed themselves.

The more obvious one being the captain of the other ship, who eventually found humanity to not be worthy of saving and ended up trying to kill everybody. That's the slasher part you elude to, but that doesn't even start till half way or more through the movie.

I agree with way2lazy2care, I'm not sure you're talking about the same movie. That seems to me like saying American Psycho is just a slasher (which would be a much easier mistake to make).

[SPOILERS]

[The more obvious one being the captain of the other ship, who eventually found humanity to not be worthy of saving and ended up trying to kill everybody. That's the slasher part you elude to, but that doesn't even start till half way or more through the movie.

Not only that, he was convinced he was the chosen one, and was to be the last human to exist. Alone with God.

Which is to say he wasn't just a monster like Jason or Freddy.

[/SPOILERS]

@Sunshine. I assume you mean that Danny Boyle's space slasher. Funny that, since I wouldn't even consider it sci-fi. The fact that you put someone trying murder someone else in space doesn't make it sci-fi in and of itself - that's just cutting people up in a different environment. To me, in order to ascend to real traditional sci-fi values, you need to transcend above anything that can just as well be achieved the comfort of your back yard or, better yet, have some social or emotional commentary in it*.

As w2l2c already argued, sunshine uses an unimaginably immense undertaking of humanity, tasked to a small group of technicians, in order to explore human isolation, detachment from society and the origins of magical/religious thinking... This journey of madness does descent into slasher scenes, so I'd probably call it a sci-fi thriller.
The enormity of their mission, the wonder at the insignificance of man compared to the sun (in both physical size and in power), and the psychological stress and isolation that comes from these couldn't be achieved in your back yard.

* true, you might argue that what did, for instance, one of the greatest sci-fi movies of all time, Alien, have to do with social commentary? And the answer is, pretty much nothing. But compared to Sunshine, Alien had one thing that made a huge difference. It had a bloody alien - you couldn't do the same film in an office building, while Sunshine would probably have benefited from it. Ultimately, the sci-fi element of Sunshine was hardly necessary for the film itself.[/quote]Alien was a commentary on corporate ethics and social responsibility... and similar to Sunshine, it was a mixture of the sci-fi and horror genres.

As w2l2c already argued, sunshine uses an unimaginably immense undertaking of humanity, tasked to a small group of technicians, in order to explore human isolation, detachment from society and the origins of magical/religious thinking... This journey of madness does descent into slasher scenes, so I'd probably call it a sci-fi thriller.
The enormity of their mission, the wonder at the insignificance of man compared to the sun (in both physical size and in power),

one of the cooler things about the movie was actually how much an impact the viewing deck scenes had. I liked the "you are experiencing the sun at X percent of full brightness" where x is super small <5% and increasing it by just a couple percent would cause permanent damage. And that was when they weren't even close to the sun yet.

Pretty awe inspiring once you realize the idea is actually somewhat accurate.