My name is Trent, I'm new to posting on this site, bue been enjoying this site for upwards of 10 years or so... Anyway, I want to discuss how we as designers can create our dream game, without all the B.S. that comes with money, corporations, and the American way! A great example is blizzard, and how they refuse to release a game until it meets their standards. Big corporate companies (E.A., and others) don't quite get this, and they don't understand that this is an ART, not a business.

I have a game that I've been designing for a long time, mostly just imagining it in my head, but recently, I've taken an actual stab at beginning the game design. I want to build this game, I want to play it. So I turn here, to one of my favorite programming resources to call out to fellow dreamers for help. I'm not smart enough to do this on my own, and I need lots of help. If anyone is intersted, there will be money eventually... But until then everything is voluntary. If you are at all interested, and think you might be able to help, let me know!

As of now, my working title is "Free Agency", implying free will, which sort of states a generalization of the entire game and its concepts there. This isn't a little design, we aren't talking simple like Starcraft, or Diablo, and I'm hoping to create a better more addicting and more enjoyable game than we currently see in the market, and I hope to accomplish this because the design and creation of this game will 100% be by any of us that join.

Once again, if you are interested, and think that you can help in anyway (accounting, HR, etc.) please contact me.

Thank you all,

Trent

Uhm. Hate to break it to you, but if your definition of "simple" is Starcraft/Diablo then you probably are building in the stratosphere. Also, how well thought out is your GDD? Because anyone willing to join that can actually help you accomplish your goals is going to ask what qualifies you as the lead designer and/or producer of this game. From your post, this doesn't sound like a commercial venture, which is fine but also restricts what you can hope to accomplish within any reasonable time frame.

Also, the design for a game like Starcraft or similar "simple" games number in somewhere around a few hundred pages or so when all is said and done. SC especially is complex (more so in many ways than Diablo) since it supposed to be a balanced three-race game, which is just prone to error.

And, finally, why would you need help with accounting/HR if this is not a professional, commercial, endeavor? HR is usually required for large corporations like Blizzard Entertainment (or Blizzard-Activision as it is now) but small studios or independent teams have no real need for that kind of layered management.

Anyhow, good luck with your game!

Once again, if you are interested, and think that you can help in anyway (accounting, HR, etc.) please contact me.

Do not post Help Wanted requests outside of the Help Wanted forum, please.

Because this is not a Game Design topic, this thread is moved to the Lounge.

Big corporate companies (E.A., and others) don't quite get this, and they don't understand that this is an ART, not a business.

Art is a business.

Big corporate companies (E.A., and others) don't quite get this, and they don't understand that this is an ART, not a business.
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So when they run out of cash and can't pay their developers, do you think they will work for free? "But it's ART!" is not going to keep professionals working for no money.

Anytime you have to pay people, it's a business, I think it's you who doesn't quite get this. No offense to you personally, but you're in no place to be explaining how game development should be done.

Uhm. Hate to break it to you, but if your definition of "simple" is Starcraft/Diablo then you probably are building in the stratosphere. Also, how well thought out is your GDD? Because anyone willing to join that can actually help you accomplish your goals is going to ask what qualifies you as the lead designer and/or producer of this game. From your post, this doesn't sound like a commercial venture, which is fine but also restricts what you can hope to accomplish within any reasonable time frame.

Also, the design for a game like Starcraft or similar "simple" games number in somewhere around a few hundred pages or so when all is said and done. SC especially is complex (more so in many ways than Diablo) since it supposed to be a balanced three-race game, which is just prone to error.

And, finally, why would you need help with accounting/HR if this is not a professional, commercial, endeavor? HR is usually required for large corporations like Blizzard Entertainment (or Blizzard-Activision as it is now) but small studios or independent teams have no real need for that kind of layered management.

Anyhow, good luck with your game!

Good points DarklyDreaming. First the HR, etc. I'm no expert there, but eventually down the road, one has to have it.
Now as to Starcraft, one of my favorite games, very well designed, and I always aspire towards Blizzard as an industry standard. What I want to create is beyond Starcraft, it may well just be a pipe dream, but I feel compelled to create it. I don't think I'm qualified as the lead designer/producer, that is why I need help. I've never done this rodeo before, but I absolutely refuse to allow any corporation to get their hands on this. A company couldn't design this game, because it is too "Risky". I am a gamer, I love playing games, and ever since Warcraft I, when I beat that game for the first time, and read the credits (thanks to ray the soda man), I knew that I wanted to be in this business. Life however has kept me as far from the industry as possible. Thus I'm reaching out to anyone else, anyone who could help me make this game. This isn't about me, this isn't a quest for greed, this is to create what I know would be an amazing game, one that would be fun to play.

All I have are the beginnings, rough beginnings of a design document, and my vision, which has been fleshed out and designed in my head for over 10 years. I'm looking for any kind of help, support, activity, I'll do this all by myself if I have to, but I know that will take me decades! As to returns, eventually the game will make money if we are able to succeed, and I'm sure it will make a decent profit, which then will be shared amongst those of us who built up this dream of mine.

I'm open to changes, and I'll help wherever and however I can, but I'm one person, without all the answers, that is why I'm turning to my favorite developer's site, if anyone is interested, this is a voluntary colaborative project, the likes of which have never been seen before, but also with that, we have a high chance of not succeeding.

The more of you out there, who can provide help in whatever ways you can, then the better this project will be.

Now to the purpose of this topic also, is to discuss how this works, and how we can create a game with no money! Lets face it, everyone has an idea, ideas are cheap, a dime a dozen. Most of us have good ideas, but those are still very common. Anyway, I am of the belief that even a game which is from a good idea is worth creating, it may not be a multimillion dollar game, but it is a work of ART. What I've noticed is that the more money we through at a promblem, the worse the problem becomes. Hollywood for example, how many BILLIONS of dollars get thrown around there, and we for the most part get crappy movies. Games used to be really awesome, some still are, but as we have corporations getting their hands on our industry, we see the same thing, CRAP coming out of the pipeline.

So how can we bust this, and restore the art to our games? I want to play great games, amazing games, but too many games today are about the bottom line, and are 100% profit driven. Complex designs are scourned because they take too long, and thus have a horrible ROI. So I appeal to those of you who are interested, help me, help us, create something fun and exciting to play. Please keep this debate open and going, because we all truly want to design our "dream" game, this isn't something that is unique to me, I'm just willing to ask for help, for directions, vs driving around lost!

Big corporate companies (E.A., and others) don't quite get this, and they don't understand that this is an ART, not a business.

So when they run out of cash and can't pay their developers, do you think they will work for free? "But it's ART!" is not going to keep professionals working for no money.

Anytime you have to pay people, it's a business, I think it's you who doesn't quite get this. No offense to you personally, but you're in no place to be explaining how game development should be done.
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Once again, I'll say this, I'm not qualified, and am not presuming to be the know all. I did some time at E.A., and respect them immensley, but they are a business, they may get an awesome game idea, but if it is too risky, and the ROI isn't short enough, they won't take up designing the game. Thus, all of our game designs to date, stem from a short design cycle, and with the purpose of maximizing proffit. Maximizing proffit is a goal for every single person, so I'm not saying this is wrong, I'm just saying that when money becomes involved, corruption follows. Products might be amazing, until money gets involved, then packages get reduced, inferior parts are used, etc. just to save some money.

Also, just a side note, there are no professional licenses in this industry, thus there are no professionals. You can't go get a programmer's license, like an Architect, right? Thus we are loosley classified as professionals. I'm not here to pass on what I know, I only have an idea, I'm turning to you, "Professionals" and asking for help. How can we do this cheaper? Can it be done? Is there anyone out there willing to spend some free time working on a game? Or are we now a greedy industry? Any ambulance chasers out there?

Just once more, for clarification, I'm not here to exhort the little bit I know, so stop trying to prove your superiority to me, I understand you may have grown up and been made fun of due to certain size... issues, but lets put all the past aside, I will announce, right here, that I'm the dumbest person in this forum. Now, anyone willing to help? Feel free to bash the idea, it brings about good conversation, but please, don't attack myself or others for their lack, or assumption of knowledge. It would be nice if at least one discussion amongst professionals, could be maintained as professional...

Also, just a side note, there are no professional licenses in this industry, thus there are no professionals. You can't go get a programmer's license, like an Architect, right? Thus we are loosley classified as professionals. I'm not here to pass on what I know, I only have an idea, I'm turning to you, "Professionals" and asking for help.

Not a license, no, but a degree: yes! You can get a computer science degree, or a software engineering degree, or an art degree, or more: whatever floats your boat. Plenty of options!

Is there anyone out there willing to spend some free time working on a game? Or are we now a greedy industry? Any ambulance chasers out there?

Don't get us all wrong here, it's not about greed at all. We all have our great ideas, you're not the only one. I have my idea I'm working on, and so is everyone else on this board probably! So we are already working on games sort of speak. So yes, we're willing to spend our free times working on a game. That's not the problem here. Are you willing to spend free time working on a game? If yes, then go ahead and start. You don't need any money for this - you also don't need any team members in the beginning. Create a design using OpenOffice, create a prototype using Unity. It's all free and ready for you to use. No money involved.

Feel free to bash the idea, it brings about good conversation, but please, don't attack myself or others for their lack, or assumption of knowledge. It would be nice if at least one discussion amongst professionals, could be maintained as professional...

The idea? You mean your game idea? We can't talk about it, because I don't think you've shared your idea yet!

[quote name='tabest' timestamp='1297288884' post='4772088']
Also, just a side note, there are no professional licenses in this industry, thus there are no professionals. You can't go get a programmer's license, like an Architect, right? Thus we are loosley classified as professionals. I'm not here to pass on what I know, I only have an idea, I'm turning to you, "Professionals" and asking for help.

Not a license, no, but a degree: yes! You can get a computer science degree, or a software engineering degree, or an art degree, or more: whatever floats your boat. Plenty of options!

Is there anyone out there willing to spend some free time working on a game? Or are we now a greedy industry? Any ambulance chasers out there?

Don't get us all wrong here, it's not about greed at all. We all have our great ideas, you're not the only one. I have my idea I'm working on, and so is everyone else on this board probably! So we are already working on games sort of speak. So yes, we're willing to spend our free times working on a game. That's not the problem here. Are you willing to spend free time working on a game? If yes, then go ahead and start. You don't need any money for this - you also don't need any team members in the beginning. Create a design using OpenOffice, create a prototype using Unity. It's all free and ready for you to use. No money involved.

Feel free to bash the idea, it brings about good conversation, but please, don't attack myself or others for their lack, or assumption of knowledge. It would be nice if at least one discussion amongst professionals, could be maintained as professional...

The idea? You mean your game idea? We can't talk about it, because I don't think you've shared your idea yet!
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Lol, btower, I know everything isn't about greed, and the world wouldn't move without money, but from this infusion of money, seems to come a proficient amount of garbage. I'm not going to share my idea here, as that isn't what this is about. This is about how can we do it for less? How can we design a game without money?

You already answered this a little bit, working on it in your spare time, and creating a design doc, then a prototype, etc. But how far can you go without funding? Could we go further?

So to start with, we get the usual:

1.)Design Doc
2.)Prototype - Story Board?
3.)Secure Funding?

So please discuss, how in theory could we develop a cheap game? Every book that I've read, every article all says the same things, and in every one of those, they assume that you have to get money. I'm wondering when we truly need that money? What hoops do we need to jump through in order to get it, and how do we protect our design from the imminent pressure of whoever funded the project to release ASAP? I'm trying to give all of you, who know way more than me, a chance to explain how game design could be done for very little money. If you don't want to discuss this, then let this post get old and rot away, but if anyone out there has ideas or theories, please share the wealth of wisdom.

So, lets get this straight...

1) You insult everyone who is a professional by telling them aren't professionals and indirectly accuse them of producing poor work due to money being involed
2) You then go on to cry about people insulting you, bring up something from childhood which none of us couldn't have known (or even cared about) in some strange defensive tactic
3) You then turn to the people you've just insulted and ask them for help...


Yeah... pass... my time is frankly worth too much to pander to another starry eyed dreamer who thinks the industry has got it wrong...

Now, where is my down rate butto... oh wait....