Science and Christianity are not in competition.
You know, as a modern Christian(at least that's what I like to think about myself), I admit there are some parts of the Bible that, well...make little to no sense. And seriously, if there's someone who has any idea of what they mean, and since this is a thread about the Bible, I would very much like to hear some answers. So, here goes:
1)Ascension of Jesus to "Heaven"
Ok, what on earth does that mean? I realize that, in times 2,000 years ago, when most people
naturally believed that the Earth was flat and above us there was a heavenly world or such like that, the image makes sense and does inspire awe and mystery. But, today? And the problem is that, the way the gospels describe it, there's no way to take it figuritavely. I could interpret it as in, after Jesus said and done all those things, he left the apostles to figure things out by themselves and for themselves, that is, gave them the choice to follow or not his teachings because they wanted to, not because he was on their back all the time. There is the parable(one of many that use the natural world as a metaphor) of the kingdom of heaven to be as a seed that is small at first, "dies" and is trasformed into a tree that gives refuge to all sorts of life. In a way, he delegated his mission to them, and to those after them and so on, so it could naturally(almost biologically) multiply(I particularly like imagining -without any shred of evidence about it and don't get me started on Dan Brown and other mediocre writers that piggybank on the popularity of Jesus' story- that, after that, Jesus went to a far away land and started a normal happy life of his own and watched from afar, don't know if that today is considered "blasphemy", but it's my imagination, what can I do).
Anyway...but they mention that Jesus went "up"? Does that even make sense? "Up", where? The moon? It makes sense as an image. It doesn't make sense as a physical event. I really like to know, do official church priests and followers really believe that? That he was actually, factually, lifted from the earth and started going "up" and then to "heaven"?
2)Virgin Birth.
Okay, I realize now that I'm touching one of the pillars - if not THE pillar- of Christianity. But again, what does that *mean*, virgin birth? It is mentioned that he was conceived "by the Spirit". However, when Jesus talks about that notion, he mentions that one -not just him- should be "born again" and "born with the Spirit" and, on top of that, that when this happens(and, according to Jesus, we do not need to "marvel about it") it's like when you hear the wind(that "blows where it will") but "you don't know whether it comes or whether it goes"). As in, you have a certainty that something changes about you, but you don't know(or even care to know) where it will take you, you just follow it. Plus, "what is born of the flesh is flesh, what's born of the spirit is spirit". That clearly, with no chance of mis-interpretation, implies that anyone can experience that "second birth", and that it will, inevitably, "transform" you into something beyond the human norm.
To give an example of how I see this "second birth" and the ascension above the "human norm", and how I don't see anything scary/supernatural about it, I like to think of the particular-naive and utopic, maybe- fantasy senario. Suppose every individual, or even better every family, picks another individual or family that has a long quarrel with, and dedicates days to this particular task: To reconcile no matter what. Like a goal, or an oath. This is a definitive command of Jesus, to forgive your enemies and "love your neighbour as you love yourself".(as an aside note, I don't think the "love yourself" part has been given much attention- I read something these holidays that I very much liked that, to love one another is to give part of yourself, and for that you need to have a self to give, like Jesus gave himself to and for humanity). So you sit down with the opposite family, for days, around a table, and talk with the specific target of reconciliation, and not puting blame. Not trying to figure out who was right and wrong, because, if you're a Christian, you *admit* that noone is "just" or "right". Kinda like how the first Christians did it, but only extended to one's enemies. This will be unimaginably hard, of course, it's not all puppies and teddy bears(I don't imagine it as a sweet, Nora Ephron-esque movie, but as a massively hard struggle and dirty labour), there are real issues that torn people apart, but anyone that even claims to be a Christian should believe that it is possible(but you know, if you do it because 'it's written' it could even be dangerous, so I wouldn't advise to do it if you don't wholeheartedly want it, lest it brings even more quarrels). And does anyone doubt that, if that happened to 10% of the population this decade, we would wake up on a radically different world, one that politics or economics could not even fathom(and I'm saying that as a marxist socialist). I'm saying that because, when I presented this idea to some people who are Christians, they invariably claim that, theoretically, is "the right thing to do", but "it's too hard, and we're only human". So...is that an admittance that, if that senario took place, something beyond the normal human affairs would take place? That could be an example of being "(re)born by the Spirit"? Again, most Christians would say that senario is, indeed, utopic, but I think they don't realize that, by this admittance, they clearly state that the core of the faith is utopic - that is, it will probably never take place- so what on earth are we even talking about? What is left of the faith after that, some rituals and some prayers?
So, again, about the "virgin birth" and "conception by the spirit". Historically and biologically, they don't make sense. I don't even understand how those, clearly supernatural, elements affect my faith in whatever way. It reminds me of those ancient mythologies where heroes and kings(Hercules, Perseus) were claimed to be of divine origin(having Zeus or Poseidon for fathers and such). But, other than that, I don't understand it as a physical event, and more importantly, I don't understand how it affects anything about the faith. "Conceived by the spirit", in contrast with "born with the spirit"(and I already mentioned how I picture this birth) could mean, to me, that Jesus was born this way from the beginning, as a massively charismatic human being that fullfilled his mission and his promises(obviously), something that, if you're religious, you indeed view it as God's gift to humankind and something that doesn't happen normally, most probably only once(teachers like Confucius name it something like having "Knowledge from birth"-and Confucius claims that he belongs to the second category of "obtaining knowledge after birth" which is inferior - and Confusius repeatedly said that he really hadn't met any such person- especially one that he named "holy sage" or such, the translation is a bit problematic). So, that's how I currently view it, obviously I'm not "wise" since birth like Jesus was, but I can hope to become (*massively* less of course, and not by myself) 'wise' while I'm alive, and this is, to me, to name oneself Christian. So how this miraculous birth, without a human father(while Jesus himself clearly admited that "whatever born of flesh *is* flesh, and he *was* flesh too) even affects my faith? Without wanting to stir anything, without claiming to be wiser than all those that believe in it, if I can't reconcile it in my mind and just believe that he had a human father, Joseph, and he was indeed "conceived from the Spirit" at the same time...what do I lose?
3)Finally, I only mention this because it has spawned, at least in my country, some bizzare cult of sorts that has put every stupid conspiracy theory, from extraterrestials to underterrestials on the mix of some holy nationalistic utter craziness. It's about this line in the OT, about the "sons of God" that mated with "daughters of men". Again, what on earth does that mean and how is it particular to anything? It again reminds of those stories of divine origins of heroes. But what does it *mean*? Some say they were fallen "angels"? "Fallen"? Seriously? From where, the sky? The clouds? Or some spiritual beings "rebelled" and then saw some pretty chicks and all of a sudden decided to grow a penis? Again, as an image in ancient times, it makes sense. As a modern Christian, I don't even know what to do with it.
4)Hell. How many texts have been written about it? I read many studies by respectable priests, theologicans, or even various popes. Is it a place, is it a state, and who the fuck cares? In the parable of the rich man and his servant, Jesus seem to clearly state that there is some sort of punishment for the 'wicked' in the afterlife, but when you actually reach there, it will be too late to fix anything, so you better get of your ass and fix things *now*. So what is the use of all this philology about what is "Hell"? What can it fix, how it changes anything? It clearly contradicts Jesus' teaching of 'let tomorrow worry about itself"(unless he was talking only about material things, but I don't see why the teaching couldn't be extended to morals too - if you try to be good, what do you fear?). If he gave that teaching about tomorrow, do we really think that he wanted us to obsess about...afterlife? So again...what the hell is up with "Hell"?
I wholehearedly admit, that if a non-Christian asks me about these things, I respond with a sincere "I have no fucking clue". Really, I admit that the the only reason I have even any interest about the Bible is Jesus, without him it does seem as just a written text like so many others(and no offence to Jewish people who are still waiting for a Messiah to fullfill the text). I have talked about it with my father, who has an interest in religion, and his answer is that he just likes those supernatural elements. But again, he himself admitted that he hasn't really read or thought much about the Bible, he has faith but more from a traditional standpoint(which sometimes is what I wish I could have). That's why I would like, if this post was answered, to be done so by a person of faith, because I really could use some answers on those subjects, in the context of religion(and I don't really care if the answers come from a christian,jewisth,muslim or any other viewpoint). I hope I didn't make any Christian question his faith here - these are just my questions, and mine alone.
