Are MMOs really out of reach for indy developers? I read these articles saying that if you don't have multi-millions that you shouldn't even try to develop an MMO. But on the other hand there are successful hobby developed MMOs like Runescape for instance.

Granted someone doesn't think they'll make WoW 2.0 I think an MMO is actually an achievable goal for a dedicated hobby developer.


What do you think?

I think if a hobbyist or indie developer can make a large-scale online game if they're sufficiently skilled and willing to put in the effort.

I think the type of game they'll end up developing probably shouldn't really be called an MMO though -- it may be multiplayer and online, but it probably doesn't qualify as massive.


I also think the majority of people who are actually trying to develop MMO games are poorly educated and/or underestimating the amount of work.

Haven and Hearth is a decent example of such. Currently used as a "jumping" board for the developers to get a new project/MMO where they want.

WurmOnline. Example of what happens when the devs stick around for a decade and go somewhat commercial. Also the developer of minecraft was the original client developer.

A single server multiplayer game should be within the reach of anybody that wants to put the time into making it. But there is a reason why WoW took several years, a few million dollars, and a few hundred people to make. Here's a hint, they weren't spending all the money on hookers and blow.

If you notice in the help wanted a vast majority of the people who post trying to make a MMO have no previous experience in making any kind of game. Its also generally their first ever post on Gamedev and they have no hard skill other then 'idea guy'. Realistically these people have no chance of getting a game done. I really think there should be a post count limit before you can post a help wanted ad. It would really cut down on these kinds of posts which are just a bandwidth waste. But every once in awhile you see a game that has some real programming work done on it or people with previous experience. These projects have a much higher chance of getting something done. But I really don't think the end product (if finished) will be 'massive'.

But on the other hand there are successful hobby developed MMOs like Runescape for instance.

Runescape was developed in a different time when expectations were different.

Just like Tetris once took world by storm, it wouldn't go anywhere today, and would just be flooded among literally tens of thousands of more compelling and more polished games. MUDs were once big and by tacking a visual UI on one of them Ultima Online was born. Again, there are hundreds of UO-like online games out there today, running in Flash/browser.

Granted someone doesn't think they'll make WoW 2.0 I think an MMO is actually an achievable goal for a dedicated hobby developer.
IMHO, MMOs are over. There is WoW, it has completed the genre. There is nothing more to improve, all that can be said has been said, now it's just about pumping content. New pet of the month. A new raid once a year. But the business and gameplay model are complete and done for.

Instead all the recent (5 or so years) have been in social interaction - individualistic experience with ability to interact with other players. Some contain explicit multiplayer component for 4/8 or so players in a match-style game, but that's about it. Aside from LOTRO which enjoyed the movies marketing push, all other attempts have all but fizzled. At least in West.

The concept of Massive is simply problematic on so many non-technical levels that it ran into a dead end. An asynchronous approach to interaction became the norm. Outside from AAA titles (and not even there) very few players are still interested into scheduling their lives around a game and prefer the reverse. Hence Zynga - MMO for the masses.

Plus we are talking about 1 in a million. There are some one-person success stories. And there are ten-thousands of attempts I guess.

reason why WoW took several years, a few million dollars, and a few hundred people to make.

Well it depends. I think wow took that long because of all the content (art and managing the items). A simple mmo with less content could be more easily achieved.

IMHO, MMOs are over. There is WoW, it has completed the genre. There is nothing more to improve,

did we play the same game?

WoW is so popular because it delivers the most important aspect of the MMO best, that being the social aspect. It is not even the best MMO gameplay wise released yet, let alone a game where nothing needs improving.

reason why WoW took several years, a few million dollars, and a few hundred people to make.

Well it depends. I think wow took that long because of all the content (art and managing the items). A simple mmo with less content could be more easily achieved.


Blizzard has went on record saying there are 5.5 million lines of code to WoW. No clue how they came to that metric so they might be counting whitespace and comments to inflate the numbers. Either way, that is way out of the realm of possibility for a small indie team.

And of course I said a single server MO should be easily achievable by somebody who wants to put the time in it. But a WoW killer created by less then a 100+ member team with several professional games to their credit? Not going to happen anytime soon.

Blizzard has went on record saying there are 5.5 million lines of code to WoW. No clue how they came to that metric so they might be counting whitespace and comments to inflate the numbers. Either way, that is way out of the realm of possibility for a small indie team.

I'd be curious to know how much of that is stuff that could be easily replaced by existing code that's readily available to hobbyists.

I think the more unrealistic thing is the sheer amount of content necessary for a good MMO.